News5 mins ago
Vow of Silence
Tom Cruises fiancee is to give birth under a vow of silence (impossible) in order to adhere to his Scientology beliefs.
Now - on here we discuss PC gone AWOL re Muslims etc but no-one has brought this subject up.
Surely in this day and age this would be barbaric to expect a woman to give birth silently with placards surrounding her reminding her - yet we are obsessed with Baa Baa Black sheep and Blackboards and Whiteboards.
Poles apart maybe but religion unites them.- or does it?
Which belief given what you know do you believe is actually true - bizarre as they both sound?
I know what I believe.
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There you go my friend one of thousands of links on the net if you'd bothered to look all about giving birth in silence if you are a Scientologist.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/gossip/story/353012p-300956c.html
Drisgirl, you said: "it came straight from the wee man in the straight jackets mouth itself." from which I understood you to mean that Tom Cruise had announced that his fiancee was going to be giving birth "under a vow of silence [...] with placards surrounding her reminding her". If you need any more help understanding what I meant when I said "Can you provide a reference?" then let me know!
noxlumos, the link you provide is to the gossip column of a newspaper. This was what I meant when I mentioned trash media, earlier. The article doesn't quote Cruise or Holmes announcing that they will be having a silent birth.
noxlumos, the link you provide is to the gossip column of a newspaper. This was what I meant when I mentioned trash media, earlier. The article doesn't quote Cruise or Holmes announcing that they will be having a silent birth.
This article "proves" that Cruise isn't such a bad guy after all, he is thinking of Katie in a way. :-p
The article also makes reference to the placards Drisgirl mentioned.
Jameseverton - I was only playing re the reference.
In the link Nox provided it referred you to the book (bible) Hubbard has written.Cruise said he would follow the guidelines on The Larry King show .I cant do links or anything clever on the computer but I'm sure you can find out more for yourself.
The media does serve us well at times and we are all not aparty to the horses mouth scenario James so I suspect thats where most of us get our information.I could bet my bottom dollar however if Tom Cruise had been misquoted he would have sued.Its not the first time and it wont be the last.(someone said he was gay and Nicole was gay as well).He sued and won the libel case.In fact he was almost libel happy at one time:)
He said it and thats all I have to say but I do appreciate you questioning it as is the right of anyone on AB.
We dont all get
Ralph - what did you go and mention the Sun for:)
No-one will take me seriously now.
I saw pictures of the placards and they did indeed say that.It wasnt the only paper it was in though.
Daughter thankfully needs on computer shortly - job hunting.
I'm exhausted convincing James that this is not bull:)Sorry James but you're like a wee terrier - what do you not believe us:)
I'm even beginning to stop checking my punctuation etc in case Word Butcher is lurking:)
Ralph - thanks for the link. 300 songs eh - at an average of 3 mins per song that is 900 minutes or 15 hours. My labours both lasted 23 hours so I hope she has better luck than me!
Have just read the stuff Nox referred to and now I am convinced that Holmes needs to get sorted. Call me a feminist if you will (thx) but I cannot believe a woman would allow anyone to enforce silence on her for the sake of religion - or in my view occult - at this most natural time of her life. Does anyone know what happens if she forgets? Can she ask for pain relief? What about if she has to sign a consent form for anything - can she ask questions? Or is it just the pushing stage?
If it is the pushing stage then I am with gary baldy re the bedroom antics of Mr Cruise! However I suspect netibiza is nearer the mark
Dris, I guess my point is that making a decision about someone/something based only on very partisan information is a bit daft. Most of the sources that I've read about this on the Internet are from unreliable gossip columns. The subtext is: "manipulative Svengali forces innocent young women to submit to his barbaric demands," and it's worth either a titter or moral outrage. It's not clear, though, what the actual facts are.
Here's another perspective: http://bighappyfamily.blogspot.com/2005/10/scientology-s ilent-birth-since-i-am.html
This blog was written by a Scientologist so it's reasonable to expect that it will support their argument but I personally wouldn't assume that it will be more biased than the popular media that needs a story to sell.
There's also the question of force. I can't find anything to seriously suggest that Holmes isn't a willing participant. (I know that there are all sorts of rumours but the Internet is full of chaff made up by 12 year olds), If you truly believed that a silent birth, however far-fetched that sounds, was in the interests of the child, then might you not consider it a good idea (or even a moral imperative)? Here's an actual quote from Cruise:
"Like anything, you want to be as quiet as possible. There have been misinterpretations that the woman can't make any noise, and that's just not true. It's nutty. No, but just calm and quiet. I want Katie to be as comfortable as possible."
Given all of this it seems, to me, a bit premature to start criticising Cruise for "babarity" over the arrangements for the child-birth, whatever his other noxious qualities. Criticise him for being a general loon, by all means.
Here's another perspective: http://bighappyfamily.blogspot.com/2005/10/scientology-s ilent-birth-since-i-am.html
This blog was written by a Scientologist so it's reasonable to expect that it will support their argument but I personally wouldn't assume that it will be more biased than the popular media that needs a story to sell.
There's also the question of force. I can't find anything to seriously suggest that Holmes isn't a willing participant. (I know that there are all sorts of rumours but the Internet is full of chaff made up by 12 year olds), If you truly believed that a silent birth, however far-fetched that sounds, was in the interests of the child, then might you not consider it a good idea (or even a moral imperative)? Here's an actual quote from Cruise:
"Like anything, you want to be as quiet as possible. There have been misinterpretations that the woman can't make any noise, and that's just not true. It's nutty. No, but just calm and quiet. I want Katie to be as comfortable as possible."
Given all of this it seems, to me, a bit premature to start criticising Cruise for "babarity" over the arrangements for the child-birth, whatever his other noxious qualities. Criticise him for being a general loon, by all means.
Bonkers.
I would agree to do it, only if Tom would place his genetlia into a vice, which I would then tighten every time I had a contaction. I would also hold up placards saying:
"ssh.. it's not good for the baby" and;
"after this, you're having a vasectomy with no pain relief"
I also believe that they don't talk to a newborn for 7 days after the birth? Do these oddballs really really think that there's these aliens and they live under a volcano on Hawaii, and they've got this secret knowledge and you can learn about it but only after you've given them lots of money and turned your life inside out and generally gone a bit weird.... LOL
I would agree to do it, only if Tom would place his genetlia into a vice, which I would then tighten every time I had a contaction. I would also hold up placards saying:
"ssh.. it's not good for the baby" and;
"after this, you're having a vasectomy with no pain relief"
I also believe that they don't talk to a newborn for 7 days after the birth? Do these oddballs really really think that there's these aliens and they live under a volcano on Hawaii, and they've got this secret knowledge and you can learn about it but only after you've given them lots of money and turned your life inside out and generally gone a bit weird.... LOL
I originally heard a number of years ago that Scientologists believe women should keep quiet when giving birth, so I do not believe it is just hype because it is Tom Cruise. And I severely doubt Scientologist women manage it. By the way here is a strange thought: Tom Cruise's last three main relationships, Nicole Kidman, Penelope Cruiz and Katie Holmes, are all from RC families. Is this a coincidence or does it mean anything?
James Everton, it is common knowledge that Scientoligists like silence or as near silence as they can get during the birth of their children.Everyone seems aware of that except you.Although the link was indeed to a Newspaper, it referred to the subject and quoted further reading for you. I already know this, you obviously don't, so it's really not in my interests to do your research for you.If you wish to know about scientology births then you must do your own research. I merely pointed out that it's commonly known and posted a link to get you started since you seem to be having trouble on this subject.I did not say that Tom Cruise manipulated anyone, I said I personally don't feel comfortable about him. that is two entirely different things.
The link may be trash media, but it states the basic principles that all scientologists follow.You asked for a reference re silent births.Read some reliable sites and find out for yourself.
nox, I'm fully aware of what Scientologists' beliefs about silent child-birth are. Perhaps I wasn't explicit enough for you, though: believing that a calm and quiet birth is important for a child is not the same as forcing women to "give birth under a vow of silence".
The only references that you've given me are to a gossip column (I don't see any references to further reading). You don't think that I've done my research but the only source that you've given me is by Corky Siemaszko, a tabloid journalist. The reference that I'd asked for was for a site where Cruise or Holmes announced that they were intending to have a silent birth as all of the others that I found (including your own) were not reporting their words but merely making the Scientologist = silent birth link.
I didn't claim that you, specifically, had said that Cruise was manipulating anyone so there's no need for you to deny it (although you did say "I'm reasonably with you on the being manipulated thing.").
The only references that you've given me are to a gossip column (I don't see any references to further reading). You don't think that I've done my research but the only source that you've given me is by Corky Siemaszko, a tabloid journalist. The reference that I'd asked for was for a site where Cruise or Holmes announced that they were intending to have a silent birth as all of the others that I found (including your own) were not reporting their words but merely making the Scientologist = silent birth link.
I didn't claim that you, specifically, had said that Cruise was manipulating anyone so there's no need for you to deny it (although you did say "I'm reasonably with you on the being manipulated thing.").
