Crosswords1 min ago
De Menezes
Is it right that the policemen who shot De Menezes should escape prosecution?
Personally, I think it is absolutely the right decision.
Personally, I think it is absolutely the right decision.
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London was on high alert and the intelligence services were proved incompetent once again, but I don't think the shooters should be prosecuted. However, I do believe people further up the chain of command should be disciplined for overseeing such a deadly fiasco.
The officers were placed in a desperate situation by inadequate intelligence and poor surveillance techniques by their colleagues.
People need to remember that the shooters are the attack dogs of the intelligence services. It is the job of other people to ensure they have the correct target before unleashing them.
The officers were placed in a desperate situation by inadequate intelligence and poor surveillance techniques by their colleagues.
People need to remember that the shooters are the attack dogs of the intelligence services. It is the job of other people to ensure they have the correct target before unleashing them.
I think personally that anyone who could have done that is a danger to society. Something must have clicked in the heads of the officers involved beacause from what we are aware of so far, De Menezes put up no struggle whatsoever.
Personally I have absolutely no faith in our police force and would not trust a police officer under any circumstances.
I have never been in trouble with the police and before now I have been as helpful as I could.
i am not normally in favour of expensive public enquiries, but in this case the public need to know what gives the police force thew right to shoot an innocent man not once but many times in the head. It would be interesting to hear in public the truth of who told who to shoot. The apology given by the police seemed so shallow and now they appear to proud of their officers !!!!
Personally I have absolutely no faith in our police force and would not trust a police officer under any circumstances.
I have never been in trouble with the police and before now I have been as helpful as I could.
i am not normally in favour of expensive public enquiries, but in this case the public need to know what gives the police force thew right to shoot an innocent man not once but many times in the head. It would be interesting to hear in public the truth of who told who to shoot. The apology given by the police seemed so shallow and now they appear to proud of their officers !!!!
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We still need to know who made the decision to fire and on what basis that decision was made.
The question then is whether that decision was made with reckless disregard for public safety.
From what I've heard the decision was made based on the fact that a man came out of a block of flats where it's believed a terrorist was. He roughly resembled that terrorist.
If that is the extent of the justification I'd say the decision to fire was reckless and there needs to be charges brought.
That may not actually be the officers who actually pulled the trigger of course.
Nobody disputes that it's a tough job being a firearms officer but we all have the right to expect that reasonable care is taken when such decisions are made.
I wonder how closely any of us resemble a known terrorist
The question then is whether that decision was made with reckless disregard for public safety.
From what I've heard the decision was made based on the fact that a man came out of a block of flats where it's believed a terrorist was. He roughly resembled that terrorist.
If that is the extent of the justification I'd say the decision to fire was reckless and there needs to be charges brought.
That may not actually be the officers who actually pulled the trigger of course.
Nobody disputes that it's a tough job being a firearms officer but we all have the right to expect that reasonable care is taken when such decisions are made.
I wonder how closely any of us resemble a known terrorist
I don't think the officers on the ground should be held culpable for the mistakes of their 'superiors'.
The crucial thing that needs to be addressed is how the system of monitoring and communication broke down, and how best to prevent this from happening in future.
Something went badly wrong, but disasters like this are rarely one person's fault.
The crucial thing that needs to be addressed is how the system of monitoring and communication broke down, and how best to prevent this from happening in future.
Something went badly wrong, but disasters like this are rarely one person's fault.
Killing that man sent out a message to all terrorists, and the message was loud and clear, if you are going to blow up our citizens you will die before you can carry out your hienous acts of murder.
Those 3 lunatics that were arrested after their failed attempt pleaded with the Police not to shoot them.
Once again I agree with Minter, give them a medal.
Remember peoplem, we are in a war, and in all wars, innocent people get killed. It happened, get over it.
Those 3 lunatics that were arrested after their failed attempt pleaded with the Police not to shoot them.
Once again I agree with Minter, give them a medal.
Remember peoplem, we are in a war, and in all wars, innocent people get killed. It happened, get over it.
woah there!! It was a tragic accident. Don't go blaming people (esp the individual officers). The poilce and intelligence communities in this country do an amazing job of protecting us (most of the time without us even knowing they're doing it).
OK, so the London bombings and the resultant death of De Menezes are cases where shortcomings were shown up, but there are plots foiled on at least a monthy basis to cause carnage and spread terror throughout the country.
OK, so the London bombings and the resultant death of De Menezes are cases where shortcomings were shown up, but there are plots foiled on at least a monthy basis to cause carnage and spread terror throughout the country.
I'm sorry I don't buy the "tragic accident" line.
How many more accidents like this would you be prepared to tolerate? 1, 10, as many as you like?
Everybody seems to accept that mistakes were made and lessons need to be learnt but nobody seems to wan't to accept that someone was responsible for those mistakes in the first place.
You may desperately desperately want to exonerate the police but unless you know who made the decision to fire and on what basis I don't think you can.
How many more accidents like this would you be prepared to tolerate? 1, 10, as many as you like?
Everybody seems to accept that mistakes were made and lessons need to be learnt but nobody seems to wan't to accept that someone was responsible for those mistakes in the first place.
You may desperately desperately want to exonerate the police but unless you know who made the decision to fire and on what basis I don't think you can.
Of course there is another explanation.
If the mis-identification of Menezes was made not by a police officer but by an officer from military intelligence then the CPS verdict makes much more sense.
The CPS brief almost certainly did not extend that far and a protective smokescreen of "public interest" will be put around the intelligence services.
If the mis-identification of Menezes was made not by a police officer but by an officer from military intelligence then the CPS verdict makes much more sense.
The CPS brief almost certainly did not extend that far and a protective smokescreen of "public interest" will be put around the intelligence services.
Someone, somewhere is responsible for an error of judgement! Will it bring the lad back?Personally, I wonder why Mr De Menezes was not prevented from entering the Tube system at all, so it did not become a 'kill' scenario.That is my question in this matter, no doubt fellow ABers have other points they might like to see a resolution for !
I come from a family that has had long serving career forces members. So I am well aware ,that in emergencies, people are expected to carry out unpleasant tasks .
I do also think that if we put people in a position of responsibility to act on our behalf ,we owe it to them accept that there are unexpected events arising in any evolving situation like this,.I also think that add on challenges like having radios that do not properly function in the mass transit network of our Capital City is something that is a very basic hardware requirement and should have been addressed as a matter of priority long before last summer.
This work is essential for National Security SHOULD it be impossible for people to be held accountable for their individual actions on the day, (and the the time leading up to it) , without out trying to find one person to shoulder the blame for the whole event?
Let us remember to behave, as we would want others to behave, if the Mr De Menezes was our loved one!
I come from a family that has had long serving career forces members. So I am well aware ,that in emergencies, people are expected to carry out unpleasant tasks .
I do also think that if we put people in a position of responsibility to act on our behalf ,we owe it to them accept that there are unexpected events arising in any evolving situation like this,.I also think that add on challenges like having radios that do not properly function in the mass transit network of our Capital City is something that is a very basic hardware requirement and should have been addressed as a matter of priority long before last summer.
This work is essential for National Security SHOULD it be impossible for people to be held accountable for their individual actions on the day, (and the the time leading up to it) , without out trying to find one person to shoulder the blame for the whole event?
Let us remember to behave, as we would want others to behave, if the Mr De Menezes was our loved one!
Apparently two expert witness's could not decide if there had been any tampering with evidence or not, so they decided not to prosecute. Eh? Can you just run the part by me again where someone thinks something MAY have been tampered with but can't actually as yet prove it so we decide to let them off scot free and not try to find out. The whole thing reeks of the police and the military "intelligence" services screwing up and covering their own arses as usual, but coming from the north of Ireland that's really not a huge surprise to me.Shoot first ask questions later has always been their motto, it's just this time it was London so everyone is oh so shocked not Belfast which is far enough away from the mainland for it to only have a snippet on the news and be buried and forgotten.It's been happening for years.
Can I just ask something that seems a bit obvious.
If your sister was shot in the head eight times, because she happened to live in the same block of flats as a terror suspect, would you shrug, say 'accidents happen' and then smile and wave whilst the officers involved were awards medals?
Or would you be a bit annoyed?
If your sister was shot in the head eight times, because she happened to live in the same block of flats as a terror suspect, would you shrug, say 'accidents happen' and then smile and wave whilst the officers involved were awards medals?
Or would you be a bit annoyed?
Give the police a medal? Wonder if they had incompetently murdered one of their family they'd be saying that?
The only way anything resembling the truth will ever come out,is if them and their Intelligence informants are taken to court. Let a jury decide on their guilt or otherwise.
Way too many lies have been told about the circumstances leading up to the killing. Course, no doubt,information will have "gone missing"
The only way anything resembling the truth will ever come out,is if them and their Intelligence informants are taken to court. Let a jury decide on their guilt or otherwise.
Way too many lies have been told about the circumstances leading up to the killing. Course, no doubt,information will have "gone missing"
Right then Loxlumos
The only time I opened fire in Northern Ireland without giving a warning was to prevent YOUR fellow countrymen from being shot or blown up by YOUR fellow countrymen, every other time I shouted a warning, so please dont bring your petty little squabble into this arguement, it has no context at all.
as for covering our a***s, you will more than likely be aware that every time the forces of the Crown open fire and inflict casualties, there is an enquiry, the results of which are made public, and IF there has been any perceived wrong doing by the Security Forces the individuals are ALWAYS procecuted, remember Pte Lee Clegg? the Paratrooper jailed for killinfg a joyrider? I've been in that situation myself so I know the procedure.
The only time I opened fire in Northern Ireland without giving a warning was to prevent YOUR fellow countrymen from being shot or blown up by YOUR fellow countrymen, every other time I shouted a warning, so please dont bring your petty little squabble into this arguement, it has no context at all.
as for covering our a***s, you will more than likely be aware that every time the forces of the Crown open fire and inflict casualties, there is an enquiry, the results of which are made public, and IF there has been any perceived wrong doing by the Security Forces the individuals are ALWAYS procecuted, remember Pte Lee Clegg? the Paratrooper jailed for killinfg a joyrider? I've been in that situation myself so I know the procedure.
