Religion & muslems

[keyvan]

There has been many heated debates here about religion and more specifically Islam. I would like to know when a reference is made to muslims, is that to the religion? People from a group of countries if so which countries? A race? etc, I would appreciate if you could specify your answer to these questions.

[delboy3]

Islam is the religion, muslims are its followers. It has nothing to do with race, nationality or colour of skin much in the same way that Christians can be white or black or other and from any country. Hope this helps!

[keyvan]

I agree with you in principle. However, I think you will find that many views on muslims are formulated and based on the assumption of race, nationality and exactly which part of the world they come from. Afterall you won't find Sweden to be a muslim country.

[scuzzball]

No, you would probably find it described as a christian country. That doesn't mean christianity is a race, and the same is true of islam. When people talk of christians they mean followers of the religion. It is true that some people when they talk of muslims think in terms of race and/or nationality. However ,they are wrong.

[Pippa68]

scuzzball & delboy are correct.

I recently heard someone refer to an Asian man as a Muslim..both he and I enjoyed correcting him as in fact he is Christian ;o)

[Dizzieblonde]

I think it's probably the religion people generally have a problem with, so the word Muslim would be used to indicate a believer of Islam - not the race, or anyone's country of origin. Unless of course, someone openly admits to their opinions being based purely on race.

Got to admit, there's some elements of Shariah Law, or Allah's Law as it's sometimes known, which I find a bit disturbing, but other than that, I don't know a great deal about the religion as a whole.

[jonnythebosh]

Here you go Dizzyblonde, try this link to see what Sharia law is all about, but be warned the stoning video aint pretty.
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/media/stoning. htm

[Oneeyedvic]

The site is as ludicrous as saying that all Christians should hate gays because God condemns them etc etc.

Yes, there are atrocities that happen in the name of Islam, just as they happen in the name of Christianity.

keyvan - I apologise for going off subject, but feel I should bring a balance to the jonnythebosh link.

Try this one if you would prefer to think of yourself as Christian: http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1001/viciou sgodquiz.html

[jonnythebosh]

I am merely pointing out some of the things that are done under Sharia law and illustrating what a sizable % of Muslims believe.
I find all religion a load of bullsh*t including christianity so the comparison is irrelevant.
Where have i ever said that christianity is more civilised than Islam? Are you sure that it isn't your own reservations and right on attitude that made you produce this totally pointless argument.?
I'm afraid that your desperation to bang the drum for Islam has been quite unecessary.
One eyed indeed.

[sandyg2244]

what you forget one-eye is that although this is a christian country, we dont all practise christianity, although it gives us a good moral grounding without predjudice(something Islam fails to do.)i might not attend church or beleive in God but I have an excellent moral code, more so than some so-called christians.the way i see it there are christians and whatever other persuasions who use religion to condemn, belittle and harass other people under their perceived cloak of religion.That sort of religion disgusts me and everything I stand for.i might be an atheist but i know how to go about life tolerating other people and not bullying anyone.

[sandyg2244]

i have no place in my life for religion, but i understand that some people get comfort from it.at its worst religion breeds hate, intolerance, contempt for those with other ideals.thats why i despise every religion except buddhism.its the only religion i know of that doesnt opress, judge, or hate others.

[jump79]

Lovely link there, jonny... its a great example of cheap, rubbish quality propaganda and brainwashing designed particularly to target guillible, docile, sheep-like masses of people who'll sit back and believe anything they are ever told.

keyvan, muslims are followers of the religion, it has nothing to do with country of origin or race etc.

[jump79]

I think it's the extremists who are evil... of one kind or another, with their dangerous, vile ideologies and occassional (oh-so-boring) rants, and in fact, all bearded extremists should be rounded up together and thrown in boats, heading off to some god forsaken country, far, far away.

Then only will the rest of us have peace and we can all happily carry on with our lives.

[Dizzieblonde]

Ta for the link JonnyBosh - not sure I've got the stomach for the video, but I might brave it when I've finished my coffee! :os

Although I'm sure the stoning business is just one small part of Allah's Law, I still don't think it's too prejudiced to consider it a bad thing if it were to become popular within British society today.

At the moment, I live in a culture where I have the right to work as I want, dress as I want, hold opinions which might not be popular, and be considered equal to others. If other people don't agree - such as Christians, or any religious group within the country - that's fine, as they're as entitled to their opinion as I am to mine, but with Sharia Law, I doubt you'd be *allowed* to agree to disagree, which is the worrying aspect.

[keyvan]

Well thanks guys for the responses.
Dizzieblonde i agree with you that some elements of the Sharia law is disturbing but I do not think that the whole religion is as bad as some people make it.
jonnythebosh your link is a PR stunt as these type of links serve one purpose to demonise a religion and sway the opinion of those who don't know a great deal about Islam. Yes such harsh measures were used as prohibitive to punish adulterers in Iran & Turkey many many years ago but it is now less common practise. It is quite alarming that that it claims these punishments are the result of its followers following a religion. I find it quite ironic that this site, blames a country like Iran for its poor human rights record and associates this with the religion of that country when in america the government endorses lethal injection and electric chair as methods of execution for its own citizens. Different methods maybe but still very cruel. Somehow doesn't paint a very rosy picture of human rights over there? That's if you take out abuses endured by all the POW's out of equation (Guantanamo Bay, ...) You also stated that a sizable % of people believe in Sharia law and by posting the link on stoning here. I'm not sure if you are implying that most of iranians, which is a nationality by the way are followers of these drakonian punishments...I think you know the direction I am heading with this debate having read many previous posts here re: muslems.
Oneeyedvic I have always enjoy reading your posts thanks for the link. Keep them coming.
I aslo agree with sandyg2244 and believe that religion is a private matter and as such those beliefs should not be enforced on anyone. Unfortunately, these days extremists from both sides use religion to suit their own political agenda and as such create an atmosphere of hatred and intolerance towards other groups of people.

[jonnythebosh]

The link that i posted just illustrates what happens under Sharia law, its not propaganda its fact. All these things happen in some Muslim countries on a regular basis and to deny it is stupid. Bury your head in the sand but don't try to pretend it doesn't happen.
Of course not all Muslims want these things to happen but as was proved with the recent survey there is a significant number in this country that do want Sharia law.
The common tactic is being used as per usual that if something doesn't fit into the rose tinted vision some have of the peacefull religion of Islam then it isn't true. It is, deal with it.
Jump, your tactic of poring scorn and your accusations of brainwashing etc, while ignoring facts, betray your desperation to display your superiority and arrogance.
Can't deal with the evidence so abuse and smear while making out you are somehow enlightned.
Having read previous postings by you this is a recurring theme.
Well. Done.

[Oneeyedvic]

"The link that i posted just illustrates what happens under Sharia law, its not propaganda its fact" - and how many of these have you witnessed - exactly how many reports have you read on this.

I have compared Muslims to Christianity as the question is about religion. You can easily find any source on the internet to back up your argument. Look - you can even find sources that believe the world is flat: http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Fl atearthsociety.htm

You obviously have no clue (same as me) about Islam and the laws governing it. What I keep pointing out (and which you seem unable to grasp) is that anything can be construed how you want.

Read the site that I posted a link to - the Bible gives very explicit instructions as to what to do if your wife has an affair, what to do to homosexuals etc etc. Are these Christian values - no in the main they are not. Most people in this country who 'claim' to be Christian or follow Christian values do not have a problem with gay relationships.

Yes, there are people in the Muslim world who carry out terrible acts - but not all of them do. Look at what this Christian said, and look how many lives have been lost since: http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases /stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.shtml

[Dizzieblonde]

Operations on dogs, Ward~Minter? It's the first I've heard of that - was it recent? Jesus wept... :(

[Oneeyedvic]

wm - and all pretty much what the Russians did in the 60s/70s/80s from what I have heard / read (but not witnessed). Did not the American navy try experimenting with getting dolphins to plant /locate mines.

People do bad things - we have seen what some british and amercian people do - and what they have threatened to do. You can take examples from Abu Grahib or you can take examples like Harold Shipman (who has killed more people in Britain than both the IRA or Muslim extremists)

I'm not going to bother searching, but there are plenty of answers in the news questions where I am sure that you express your wishes to torture people - so are you evil?

I still find it a shame that a lot of people choose to condemn a whole religion on the basis of 'a few' of their followers. From Wikipedia there are 1.3 Billion Muslims around the world - do you really believe that ALL of these people are Evil?