Support For Israel

[Theland]

Should our government do more to support the state of Israel?
I believe they should

[Carby]

Our government should sort the problems out in our own country before sticking their nose in other countries problems and business. Maybe if our goverment sorted problems at home before trying to sort problems abroad this country would be a better happoer place to live.

[Gromit]

The Isaeli Government do not need our support. They have the USA to veto every UN resolution. This is in effect is a blank cheque to do whatever they like. Israel itself as a country is unsustainable without the �6billion 'aid' from America.

[WaldoMcFroog]

can make certain assumptions given your fundamental Christianity, but they would be assumptions. Describe the type of support you feel Israel might need, so we can give a meaningful answer. I

Are we talking surgical stockings or what?

[Gromit]

Correction to my post above:

Should read $ not �

[suffragette]

I think Israel has a right to exist in peace alongside its neighbours, but I also believe in a viable Palestinian state and I'm not convinced Israel really wants that.

Israel seems torn between its desire to be both a Jewish and a democratic state. If it remains democratic, Arabs will eventually outnumber the Jewish population and vote for alternative, non Jewish governments. If Israel becomes a Jewish state and denies voting rights to non Jews or worse still, begins evicting non Jewish citizens to the Palestinian territories, it will experience even more condemnation around the world.

However, I do not have a great deal of sympathy for the Arab viewpoint that criticises Israel for the theft of ancient Palestinian lands. When does a piece of land become the permanent property of one set of people?

Land theft is, and always has been, a political reality around the world and if we all adhered to the principle that land should be returned to the owners on such and such a date, the world would turn upside down.

Turkey could be expected to return Istanbul to the west, China would be forced to relinquish its stranglehold over Tibet and one could argue the Great Plains be returned to the Lakota and other native American tribes.

I admire Israel but at the same time am disheartened by many of her actions. Such is the nature of politics and nation states.

I've just re-read this and realise what a completely woolly answer this is. Maybe, I should be a diplomat?

[Theland]

Waldo - I believe that our government should give Israel more political and moral support than at present.

[jno]

this wasn't strictly land theft, suffragette: Israel was in effect given the land by the rest of the world to compensate for the outrages of the Holocaust and as an acknowledgment that Jews wouldn't be safe anywhere else. By rights they should have been given a chunk of Germany. Instead they were given land occupied by the Palestinians, on the grounds that God told them several thousand years ago that they could have it. Why should the Palestinians have to pay for Nazi crimes?

Anyway, Israel has just admitted it has nuclear weapons (an open secret for a long time but officially denied), so I'm darned if I can see why Britain should give them any more support. As Gromit has pointed out, they already have the total support of the USA, and that should be enough for any country.

[Theland]

The U.S.A. also give a lot of aid to Arab countries, so dollars are not the issue.
If some of our politicians could refrain from always condemning Israel everytime she defends herself against rockets and suicide bombers, that would be a good start.

[Ctrak]

No.

[WaldoMcFroog]

Theland, that tells me nothing.

With respect to what do you see a need for greater political and moral support? The fig industry? The records of Aviv Geffen? Their policy on Palestine? Their software industry?

I'm being slightly facetious, but I would like to know.

[Theland]

Our politicians could have been more vocal in supporting Israel building the barrier which has been so effective against suicide bombers, and less vocal about condemning Israels incursions into Lebanon and Gaza. European so called "peacekeepers" on the Lebanon border are allowing Hizbollah to rearm, as a result of the watered down UN resolution that got them there. European guards at the Raffah border crossing do little or nothing to prevent arms being smuggled into Gaza, more should be said about that.
Israel has a right to exist. That is non negotiable, to the ire of its neighbours, including Syria and Iran. So Blair should not be making overtures to these two countries to include them in any discussions, unless and until they accept the fact of the state of Israel.

[ConfusedJohn]

No. Israel is like a rogue country. It wages illegal wars and commits horrendous crimes but nothing is ever done to stop them. If other middle eastern countries persecuted thier neighbours like the Israelis did there would be an uproar. Leave them be, with their American guilt money.

[Theland]

The Jew are a people, like any other people, but for many years a people without a land. This was mandated to them by the United Nations and they declared their independence in 1948.
They were immediately attacked by five Arab armies, and won. So, by politics and diplomacy the won the right to exist, and then defended that right by force of arms.
Yes, they are a legitimate country with a right to exist.

[Theland]

ConfusedJohn - What illegal wars has Israel perpetrated? As regards horrendous crimes, well yes, every country on earth has at some time commited crimes, and Israel is no exception. But, compare what it has committed to what it has suffered!

[Gromit]

Theland, does this sound like a good idea.

Solution to the War in Iraq:
The Sunnis and the Shias are at war with each other. Why not ship all the Sunnis to Wales. The displaced welsh will sort themselves out somehow. Obvously having an Islamic state in the middle of a christian one might cause a bit of tension, so the EU could give the Islamic State of Wales $6billion of aid to defend themselves.

[Theland]

At the rate the muslims immigrating into this country, you may soon see something like the scenario you describe! There goes Christmas!

[jno]

lol Gromit... I mean not actually funny, but spot on. Theland, I suspect your last post tells us more about your real attitudes, though.

[Theland]

My real attitudes? Simple. I support Israel, and I dislike the growing muslim influence in this country.

[noxlumos]

The problem everyone seems to miss about Israel is that it's an infant country yet. The Arabs had their land sidetracked to accomodae it's birth and in the big scheme of things 60 years is no amount of time for any ill feelings to have subsided. If you are hoping for peace any time soon you are hoping that human nature will not be as it is and although my wife is Jewish and therefore some of my children also, neither she nor I applaud the heavy handed manner that Israel conducts itself. My son was in Lebanon to cover the Israeli incursion there and he said had he been Lebanese there is no way he wouldn't be fighting Israel.
With regards to Tony Blair not making overtures to Iran and Syria, that would be a huge mistake indeed. People who feel they are disregarded, unheard etc are violent. That is true of anything from individuals to States. You cannot expect them to realistically be overjoyed at Israel's relatively new presence in their backyard and not talking to them and including them in vital talks about the region really will not help.It's not for us to sort out the Middle East, the Middle East must do that themselves ultimately. I'd imagine you'd be pretty ticked off if the Iranian President started trying to make decisions about the borders between England Scotland and Wales, so Iran and Syria are understandably incensed at US interferance. It's not team America ( and it's $6billion dollars worth of "moral support" for Israel) World Police you know, or at least it shouldn't be, and none of this should have anything to do with God!�