Public money to fund imams.

[Loosehead]

So is there a national shortage of loony preachers then? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6718235 .stm WTF is going on in this country? Is this Blair's final act of contempt for the people?

[sp1814]

My point is this...the word 'extremist' has been lost.

The phrase 'Muslim extremist' has now become 'Muslim', and it's a dangerous road to go down.

Ask yourself this - are all atrocities arounfd the world funded by Muslim extremists?

If I were a copper investigating a crime, the first thing I would assess is motive...why are we seeing a surge in extremism? Why didn't this happen in the 60s or 70s or 80s?

C'mon...its a simple matter of putting two and two together.

When you were at school, what were you afraid of? I know I was scared of a nuclear war between Russia and America...

...so what's changed? Let's leave aside the unholy nonsense spouted by the American Right...we all know why Muslim fundamentalism has taken hold, and it ain't because we've been shipping Ben & Jerrys to Tehran.

[ruby27]

Theland
sorry but again have to disagree with you.
I think anyone who calls on the harm and death of anyone is totally wrong - no sorry I do agree with assisted euthanasia, but I believe you know what I mean.
Christians such as Blair and Bush, not my view of a Christian but they both claim to be, acted in ways that have been instrumental in the deaths of many. Wrong wrong wrong. But no more no less than the Muslims you mention, its all wrong. This isn't a cricket score where whoever is scoring highest on hate and cause of death is winning, both sides, both religions, both acts of human behaviour are wrong.

[whiffey]

Islam will NEVER integrate, not in Britain, not anywhere. All this flannel about 'moderate Islam' it's all a load of baloney.

Sikhs, Hindus, any number of others, will mix in and get on, but Islam never will.

It's not a question of 'wake up Britain', it's a very sad 'tough, but too late'

[ruby27]

sp1814
didn't see your post, must have been to busy composing mine
why is it so difficult for some to add two and two together and make 4 rather than the answer being a recent demonetization of one religion.
Why is harder to believe and understand that if you as two very power nations attack a country its nearest neighbours and others who are politically or religiously affiliated may take a little umbrage to say the least.

[sp1814]

ruby27

I agree wih you, and I have to say whiffey, that the idea that Muslims cannot integrate is bunkum.

I refer back to the Muslim shopkeeper he/she have been integrating into British society for decades - sending their kids to the same schools as us, watching the same telly and films, and shopping at the same discount furniture stores.

What do you mean, when you say 'integrate'?

How far do they have to go?

[Theland]

Looking forward to the results of your thinking Rube.

[IggyB]

whiffy why do you think that a muslim person can't integrate in britain, and do you mean british citizens that are also muslims or foreign nationals moving here that are muslims... or both - must admit i can't understand your reasoning

[sp1814]

fender62

Do you believe that on the other side, there are non-Muslims who will never accept someone who isn't 100% British?

Or do you think it's all one-sided on the Muslim side?

[IggyB]

i don't understand all this kill the none believers stuff that is often spouted as a tenet of the muslim faith... the major three old religions (Christian, Jewish and the Muslim faiths) all have some nasty bits in the scriptures about kills in gods name or god himself killing men, women and children who happen to practice the wrong religion... you just can't get to het up about an old book - nearly all modern muslims just like nearly all modern christians aren't going to go killing in the name of the lord any time soon.

Flip open your bible if you have one handy and skim through the old testament - its pretty disturbing stuff too but you never hear muslims moaning at christians about it.

Ex. 31:15 Whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Lev. 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death.

Lev. 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man�s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death.

Mal. 2:1-4 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you. If you will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart to give glory to my name,...behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces.

Lovely - what a jolly civilized religion we have over here in the west eh? right i'm off to help jesus throw **** at a priest or two... bye

[anotheoldgit]

IggB The difference is, the fact that Christians do not now conduct themselves in ways laid out in a book written thousands of years ago, yet Muslims still do.

You were also careful to quote the Old Testament, which is much more violent. But taking this into account can you give any examples where anybody recently has been put to death for working on the sabbath? or put to death for blaspheming the name of the Lord? or put to death for adultery? or indeed had dung spread over their faces? But then perhaps in the latter case this is what you are trying to do to us with your Bull-S**t

[feist]

The hardcore muslims that you mention fender62, are a minority, same minority that you'd call extremists who are a threat to pretty much Everyone.

Most muslims, those who are moderate, couldn't give a rat's bum about non-believers and if it's against their religion to accept them or not... most people don't follow the book word by word you know, many don't even know everything about their religion, nor do they care as long as they get the general gist of the core morals and values they have to uphold ...

[feist]

....that is to live as a decent human being.

[IggyB]

i was simply making the point that the bible and the koran are both as bloody and intolerant as each other - so to moan about the koran having sections in it relating to killing the infidels is hypocritical unless you also mention that all the old religions have something similar... consider it a side point but one you should consider when thinking of more reasons why muslims should be the worlds modern scapegoat

But then again i'm probably in too much trouble already considering 1 Sam. 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. By having to mention to the mindless majority that all muslims aren't really out to kill us and take over the world i'm surely a witch - i will await an angry mob for a good old fashioned stoning any minute now.

[sp1814]

In my opinon organised religion serves two purposes - to give people hope in a world that often doesn't make sense, and comfort.

I don't have a religious bone in my body, and I don't have any problem with anyone who has faith. However, all religions have a problem when they exist in a fundamentally secular society.

There will always be issues which cross boundaries - Catholics with female priests and abortion, Anglicans with gay bishops and so on.

I haven't really made a point, but I hope you can see what I mean anyway.

[Theland]

The huge number of muslims that now believe, according to a recent poll, that the British government orchestrated the 7/7 bombings in London, speaks volumes about muslim attitudes to their British hosts. If they haven't got a genuine grievance, then they have to invent one. The pressure on government and our society in general is relentless, and the promise of peaceful integration is only prised out of them with promises of special accommodations for muslim society, which to a great extent exists as a society within a society.
True, it's not applicable to all muslims, but to such a large minority of them as to threaten a complete paradigm shift in what we formerly treasured as our British way of life.
If there are any posters here from Belfast, then I would like to ask them, what would happen there if Catholic and Protestant paramilitary people percieved a threat to their way of life from militant muslims? I dread to think.

[NJOK]

January 2005.

BBC executives receive phone calls from people claiming to be from evangelical group Christian Voice. Many are threatened with "death" if the corporation broadcasts Jerry Springer: The Opera. Others are threatened with less explicit (but equally unnerving) "bloodshed".

February 2005

A cancer charity has to turn down a �3,000 donation from the makers of the show after Christian Voice threaten to picket its premises if it accepts �tainted� money from the �filthy and blasphemous� musical.

These christians - they're not all Songs of Praise and Vicar of Dibley are they?

[NJOK]

Couch potatoes? Not all Christians.

Eric Robert Rudolph, a member of Christian Identity, committed several bombing in the US duing the 90s because he violently opposed homosexuality and abortion, claiming that they were against Christian doctrine.

Another group, the Lambs of Christ, have committed at least one murder. Then there's Army of God, who have attempted to do the same.

I'm fairly sure only last year a Christian militant attemtped a suicide bombing of an abortion clinic.

These may be single issue terrorists but they're all doing it in the name of their Christian beliefs.