"Family Honour murder???

[Loosehead]

Surely Murder + Life in jail dishonours the family a little bit more that a divorce! Or hav I missed something.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6906 735.stm

[Gromit]

Can't disagree with anything you say. It is quite simply, pre-meditated murder. The United nations estimate that as many as 5,000 women are murdered each year.

There is actually no mention of it in the Koran thought it is often mistakenly attributed to the Islam faith because it is most prvelent on the asian subcontinent and middle east. It pre-dates Islam and is therefore a traditional practice and one that should have remained in medeval times.

[ruby27]

Lonnie
I have been divorced, whilst I was at the time very ashamed, I survived. But, for many it just seems to much of an effort.

By the way got these from google, they are all British white, not deliberate but just how they came up.

Earl's third wife denies conspiracy to kill
Wednesday May 23, 2007
The Guardian

Cullinane, who comes from Jersey, had become convinced his wife was having another man's child, Croydon Crown Court was told. Mrs Cullinane's body was found BBC News Wednesday, 5 March, 2003

The ex-wife of Jon Molyneux, the former chief executive of Scoot.com, has pleaded guilty to hiring a hitman to kill her husband for his life insurance money, the Old Bailey heard on Monday.

20-year-old man was encouraged to kill his aunt's husband so she could pay off debts of nearly �200,000, a court has been told.George Button, 53, was battered about the head as he walked his border collie down a country lane near his home in West Rainton, County Durham, in March this year. BBC News 2005.

Almost would put you off marriage

[jno]

disappointed to hear you didn't kill your partner to teach him a lesson, ruby, but you're quite right: Europeans kill their spouses too, it just doesn't get called honour killing. Generally, though, other family members don't join in

[NikkiB]

Victims of so-called honour killings aren't just married women. They can be single girls refusing an arranged marriage, having a boyfriend, or merely suspected of having a boyfriend, being "too" westernised etc. And distinct from spousal murder, it is often the victims own family who decide to kill her. That is thankfully extremely rare in my own English culture.
It may or may not be advocated in the Koran but aren't there passages in that book to recommend the stoning to death of adulterers? As long as such passages exist, followers can interpret that into taking the law into their own hands.

[Gromit]

NikkiB

No, the Koran does not specify, reccomend or otherwise order stoning to death for adultery. And Honour Killing is not mentioned at all.

[ruby27]

jno
don't think I didn't consider it, when he said he was leaving me, I thought oh the shame, it would be so less embarrassing if I was a widow. I had even chosen the dress, the hat and the lipstick, wow I was going to look so good.
But, I then remembered I am anti violence - damn damn and damn.
oops sorry this isn't B & S

[jno]

The Bible, however, does demand the death sentence for adultery (in Leviticus):

And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death

Jesus didn't actually reject this but he did say such sentences could only be carried by those without sin, which might have a limiting effect.

[ruby27]

Woo, the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death
no wonder the Christians generally gave up on that one, for life of me I can not work out whose doing the adultery and who is doing the killing. I would be no use on the jury/mob, I would be whingeing- "which one" should I stone or whatever is appropriate!!! To be fair to the family honor killings at least they generally know who to pop off.
All horrible and in no way justified.
By way jno why disappointed, do I seem the blood thirsty type?
What were duels in the 18th century where men of certain class in Europe killed each other for slapping each other around the face with a glove when they were insulted?

[shazzzz]

i think this is a great step in the right direction, how hard must it of been for the other two members,of the family,to go against there own,especially in the asian comunity there are loads of these killings ,and a lot of them go unsolved,it is only fair the killers be brought to justice,hopefully more people will come forward everyone deserves the right to a proper resting place.

[wooo12]

The family in question were actually sikh. so what the koran says about it is irrelevant in this case.

however that is not to say it doesn't happen within muslims familes.

just thought i would point that out.

[andy-hughes]

Yes Loosehead, you have missed something. It's a chasm light years across that's called cultural differences.

To the mind of any right-thinking Westerner, the notion of murdering a woman for bringing 'shame' on her family is so utterly repellant that it cannot be thought about for too long without inducing a severe and long-lasting headache.

However, not everyone is a Westerner, and they live by and practice social customs that are utterly alien to us, because they believe it is the right thing to do under the circumtances.

As with so many other actions that make the news, terrorism, child kidnap, rape, murder, and so on, trying to apply ratiional thought and reasoning to this behaviour is completely pointless.

Yes there are reasons for all these things, but they are beyond the understanding of any rational caring thinking individual, so looking for them, and expecting to find them, is sadly a waste of time.

I'm not saying we accept these things because they go on, simply that looking for reasons that we can comprehend is not an option for us.

[NikkiB]

Killings that resemble honour killings MAY have been in the Bible but not the Koran (the jury is out on that one) but if that's so, then it's all the more damning for Middle East and Asian countries. Indigenous British men do not kill their daughters for having boyfriends. They do not plot with their wives and sons to bludgeon her to death for fighting against an arranged marriage. Middle Eastern and Asian males, many of whom are brought up on a book that apparently DOES NOT advocate honour killings, nonetheless do so in their thousands. Many of these killings are not even done in the throes of rage. They are calculated executions of the very people you should worship and protect and are therefore a thousands times more chilling.
But the latest conviction of the Sikh family members is very encouraging. A strong message must be sent to wipe out this practise, at least amongst certain subcultures in Britain. If only we could sever ties countries like Pakistan who imprison hundreds of women each year for the dubious crime of zina, or Jordan, which more or less encourages honour killings, or Saudi Arabia, who see women as nothing more than an excess piece of flesh attached to a vagina.