Why doesn't god let him die?

[naomi24]

In June a family member had a major stroke. He has been in hospital ever since, unable to eat or drink, unable to move anything except his head, one arm and one leg, and he is unable to communicate. He's a dignified man - ex RAF - who would be absolutely mortified to know that he cannot fend for himself, and that people are caring for him physically to the degree that they are. He is trapped in a silent, failing, body, and yet I know he is aware since he listens to me and watches me intently, and when I hold his hand he's always reluctant to let mine go. His condition is truly heartbreaking. If the biblical god really is a god of love, then why would he allow this living hell to continue? If this god has decided it's time for this man to die, then why is he still living? Mere human beings wouldn't allow an animal to suffer like this, so where is god's love and compassion? Seems to me it's non-existent.

[beryllium]

Hi Naomi,
I am so sorry to hear this.
If God had had his way, before the medics decided to play God themselves.... then that dearest family member would now be in peace.
I am now a firm believer in Living Wills, and I consult lawyers before medics these days.

I know that does not help with this gentlemans situation now. Nor your distress in seeing him like this.

Is there indeed any hope of him making a recovery?

I'm sending you all my love Naomi and give the gentleman a smile from me :)

Strength be with you.

B. xxx

[saxy_jag]

It's horrible seeing people in this state, especially if you know, deep down, that he's not going to make it.

The problem is that 'god's' love gets in the way of the medical teams. They have been conditioned - as most people have - that not helping someone to live, whatever the future quality of that life, is wrong. Indeed, medics even have to swear an oath that they'll do so (although there are debates over points of the oath). This conditioning comes from centuries of religious belief - if religion decrees it, then it is thus, and it permeates every area of life.

Religion (christian religion at least) decrees that animals don't have souls, so therefore we can allow them to die without feeling guilty. If they're suffering, most people consider euthanasia a kindness. 'God' and his mates forbid us from showing kindness to fellow human beings in this way.

[naomi24]

Hello Beryl and Saxy, Thank you both so much.

No, there's no hope of recovery, Beryl. His body is emaciated and he can only lie flat on his back and wait silently to die.

I think both of you have a point in that medics play god, and if nature had been allowed to take it's course no doubt he would have been free by now. I just wish this 'god' who can supposedly do anything he likes would show some love and compassion and step in and say enough is enough. I can accept that he is going to die, but it's so hard to watch him lingering for so long in this condition. It's so very cruel isn't it.

[beryllium]

Hey Naomi,
I had a strange 'chat' on another forum about transandental
dreams and travel the other day.
A lovely girl was telling me about her mums friend, dying from cancer whom they were visiting, my friend was only 8 at the time.....
They were told he was in America, and had been there for 3 days...
The fact he was actually in bed???........
I do believe he was visiting America :-)

[cruella]

Hi naomi24
Oh, I feel for you, I real do! What you must be going through.
I was in that position many years ago when my Mum had a stroke. I often prayed that God would take her or make her better. That wenton for over a year. In my opinion she was left with no dignity due to her illness.
I work with some people who are in that position through illness and wish to die at home.
Like you, my colleagues and I have to witness their dying, sometimes for over a year and they can be in pain etc.
The only way I deal with it now is to tell myself that it is not their time to go. For some reason, unknown to us, they are hanging on. Maybe they are not ready to leave us yet.
They will let go when the time is right for them, not us. Sad as it is, it would be so much easier for those left behind not to have witnessed their distress.
I do hope you can cope wioth this until the end and I am sure the person involved is aware you are there for him.

[Lonnie]

Hi Naomi,
I can't answer your question, but i'd just like say my thought are with you, your family member, and the rest of your family at this time.

I think its a wonderful thing your doing, going and sitting with him, at the very least, he knows his family love him, and will be there at the end.

[naomi24]

Beryl, I would believe that too.

Cruella, what a hard time you must have had with your poor mum. I'm so sorry. I've also worked in the social sector and dealt with things that were really hard to deal with, and that, frankly, I'd rather not have witnessed, but when these things happen, you can't help wondering why death is sometimes so incredibly cruel. My problem is that I know he's aware of what's happening, and I know he's hating every moment. To see him in that silent, emaciated, body, unable to communicate, or even to object to what's being done to him is like something from a horror film. I can't help putting myself in his situation. I hear Christians banging on about this loving and compassionate god, but I see no evidence for it whatsoever. It's no wonder I can't believe in him.

Lonnie, thank you my friend. Kind and loving as always.

[wizard69]

Hi naomi,
I sympathise with you. I saw my father turn from a proud military man (sergant in the army) to a wheelchair bound cripple with heart disease. His death was prolonged and tortuous.
Seems to me that god is a bit of a sadist to allow these things to happen.
My thoughts are with you.
x x x

[naomi24]

Thanks Wiz.

[Le Chat]

Maybe the reason that 'God' is keeping him hanging on is for the 'benefit' of family and friends and not for any reasons to do with your ill family member himself. Maybe you are all to learn some important life lessons from this. I don't know what they may be ....humility, patience, humbleness, love ....
Just throwing in a different perspective here. You may agree or not agree but He is supposed to move in mysterious ways.

[WaldoMcFroog]

Hmmm. If a scientist were to put forward a proposal to keep a person in a condition like this, and deny him death in order to examine the effects on other people, it was be refused for being obviously unethical.

Of course the real answer to Naomi's heartrending situation is that this poor man is alive because his own body, however debilitated it is, and medical assistance keep him alive, not because a non-existant deity is involved in any capacity.

Of course, if we had living wills, it would be easier to allow people in these kinds of situation to die humanely, and it would be kinder on those left behind too.

[Octavius]

I am sorry to hear of your sadness. Perhaps the answer (if there is one) lies in the post you made in another thread. Your god is mot that of the Bible, but one of love, and the laws of the universe, of spirituality and evolution are more complex than we mere mortals can comprehend.

Perhaps although his body is so emaciated as to make watching unbearable, his spirit and the laws of the universe are attempting to hold on the last bit of life he has left. If this was an animal it would be put down. Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on your view) our laws do not share that view of humans.

If science were to propose holding a person in this state for research, this would be immoral and possibly be in defiance of the laws of nature. This is a separate medical and ethical issue, not really one about God.

[luna-tic]

Hello Naomi, I am so sad to hear of your relative's condition and this must be so traumatic for you and your family to see such a courageous man unable to return to his loved ones as you once knew him.
Some may see the Biblical God as one of love but the Bible was written by men and it's people like that, that feel compelled to defy a true God of love and keep your relative alive despite knowing that he has no quality of life before him.
I only hope the medical team are not prolonging his suffering and make a decision that will give your relative the dignified passage to his God of love and you and your family an inner peace knowing he has received so much compassion from those dearest to his heart and he is able to say goodbye in his own way.
My thoughts are with you.

[Mammar]

Hello, Naomi
I'm sorry to have to talk to you on such a sad topic.
I don't think it's down to "God" - I think it's the gentleman's inner strength that's helping to keep him here.
Perhaps, despite his condition, he is such a strong character that his spirit won't give in. There may be a reason he's still here. My sisters and I felt we had to give our Mum "permission" to go because she felt she had to stay here for us. After we'd whispered to her that we didn't mind if she left us behind she started to slip away peacefully.
Whatever happens, it 's obvious he seems to value the time you spend with him so just keep going to visit; he'll feel your love and that will help him in the days that come.
All best wishes, my dear x x

[naomi24]

Octavius, thank you, and you're absolutely right. My god is not the biblical god. However, like others, when speaking of god on AB, I refer to the being that most people believe to be god - the god of the bible - he that is supposed to be full of love and compassion, and is so very clearly not. I find it difficult to comprehend that despite his continual reluctance to actually do anything positive to make life, and death, easier for us mortals, according to Christians, that's his will, and despite him being all-powerful, nothing is ever his fault, and we are told we must just accept that. As Le Chat says, he moves in mysterious ways. How convenient for him that people don't question why. He has to be the grand-master of the get-out clause, and how anyone can believe in him and go as far as to worship him is completely beyond me.

I'm so sorry I couldn't answer the other posts earlier - reading such kind words from people I only know on AB was too overwhelming, and I simply didn't know what to say. Oddly enough, I still don't know what to say, except thank you.

[taperface]

Hello Naomi - I'm sorry to hear about this, but they say He moves in mysterious ways. I think this person knows you're there, but his time's not come yet. I hope you talk to him - tell him things and how much he's loved. Tell him to be strong, and all will be well. There's a reason for everything, although it seems so unkind that a god can let things happen like this. My thoughts are with you all.

[naomi24]

Taperface, I'm not entirely sure I agree with your sentiments, but thank you for your kindness.