Photo manipulated at Meneze trial

[Gromit]

The Met Police has been accused of manipulating a photo of Jean Charles de Menezes.

The image had been "stretched and sized". The face proportions had been distorted and the skin tones darkened to look more like a middle eastern look.

The image was then shown next to a 21/7 plotter to give the impression the two faces were similar.

In short, the Police are fabricating evidence. If the Police think they have no case to answer, why are they resorting to falsifying evidence?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7048756.stm

[jake-the-peg]

cherries

Immediately after Menenzies was shot there was a lot of incorrect stuff circulated.

None of it was true.

Menenzies was NOT here illegally

He did NOT run and vault a barrier - he stopped and bought a paper
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10_02/sh ootDM0810_468x362.jpg
Here he is entering the station with his hands in his pockets!

He was NOT wearing a bulky jacket.

http://piratenews.org/jean-charles-de-menezes- kia-london.jpg

The police made a mistake it's bad - it happens.

They then Lied to us - this is not acceptable!

They're still doing it


Here's the picture shown to the court
http://www.product-reviews.net/wp-content/user images/2007/10/the-met-office-accused-of-manip ulating-tube-victim-photograph.jpg


Here's the actual pair together
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/08/17/m enezes_osman_wideweb__430x253.jpg

Don't look quite so similar now do they?

Realising the Police are lying to try to cover their mistake is not being disloyal to anybody in Iraq

[cheries]

I wasn't trying to suggest that anyone was, Jake, merely align the similarities between the way the citizens behave out there (knowing the security services have got a job to do and therefore following orders with the minimum of fuss) and the way in which this man was asked to stop for police.
At the end of the day, none of us were actually there that day and therefore cannot rely on the ever increasingly biased media for our information. What is released by the media and police may be inaccurate information leaning towards one side or the other.
I am certainly not suggesting that this case has anything other to do with operations in Iraq other than to state that in other countries which are in a state of siege the citizens know how to behave accrdingly, or they face the consequences of their actions.

[NJOK]

Hang on cheries.

So what you're saying is, the information we're working with is biased (from both sides) and we weren't there ourselves so we can't tell what happened.

Isn't that why we're having a court case? To determine what did happen?

Or should the poor police not even be subjected to that?

[cheries]

Quite. I have my opinions and you have yours. The court case will no doubt expose the truth.
My feelings, if I am really honest, are about the way in which the British Police have been villified and made out to be cold hearted murderers for their choices and actions on that day. I find it terrifying that you are all prepared to accept that the police in this country have cold-bloodedly murdered a man. They were acting on the information they received during a heightened state of awareness and this man compounded the problem by (so we are told) not complying with the armed response team's requests.
I know very well a member of that squad and, as I have stated before, and only they know what actually happened that day.
I find this very similar to the Madeleine McCann situation; everyone thinks they know the truth because of what they've read in the papers. On that basis none of us should be attempting to make a judgement as we're not informed enough to make that decision. However I am still entitled to my opinion based on the "evidence" which I have heard.
Yes, it might be wrong. But then we could all have been taken for a ride here.

[NJOK]

Can you not spot the contraditction in what you're saying, cheries?

None of us are prepared to accept that the police murdered someone in cold blood. We just want a court case to determine what happened. If they've acted responbsibly, great stuff. If they've misued that responsibilty and ended someone's life because of it, they need to be held accountable.

I find it terrifying that you're arguing for a situation where the police are not held accountable for their actions, just because they have a difficult job to do. It sounds like something George Orwell would come up with.

[cheries]

I don't agree with the term "Murdered". This suggests that the police were metering out punishment and had motive / desire to kill for killing's sake. This is simply not the case.
And George Orwell had a bl00dy good point. The subtext of the book 1984 was based upon the premise that an influence of foreign forces would eventually create a state which needed total and ultimate force to maintain and protect.

[China Doll]

I don't think it is a witch hunt cheries, an innocent man died and questions have to be answered.

You can spin it round a little bit and say that if someone came in to a hospital for a routine procedure and then died on the operating table questions would be asked. It's not a witch hunt against those involved but something went wrong and it needs to be determined what that was so it doesn't happen again.

I know I gave something of a flippant answer earlier but that's mainly because I've done this one to death but for me, the thing I find most sickening is the propaganda that was released afterwards. Someone does need to answer for that.

Mistakes do happen but you hold your hand up to them. If your actions were justifiable then it will be proven so in a court case. Trying to cover it up is unacceptable.

[cheries]

Yes CD, I accept your point there. The propaganda for both sides is exactly that, propaganda.
Let's see what the outcome is over all this and then we can all get back on here and dissect it with the full facts.

[jake-the-peg]

Unfortunately it rather looks as if everything's getting bogged down in the shooting.

It's the lies and misrepresentation that's important

If the Police get away with these then we can no longer trust them.

If we can no longer trust them then we're sunk.

[jake-the-peg]

Cherries

Full facts....

Look at the pictures I've given you..

Do you see a running man?

Do you see a man in a heavilly padded jacket?

What more do you want?

[Gromit]

cheries,

Most would accept that the shooting was a tragic mistake. My question, and other posts are concerned that if "The court will no doubt expose the truth." then the evidence should be trufthful. To challenge the evidence is not siding with the terrorists, it is up holding the law.

[4GS]

The Met are carrying out what we used to call 'damage limitation'. We live in a democracy (thank God) and the Police need to be accountable, here's the senario I found myself in in 1979 in West Belfast (I don't normally recount active service stories so you lot are privalidged indeed).

A car comes down the Falls Road heading towards Andersontown roundabout, the driver thad already driven into one soldier and was heading towards my patrol and hit another soldier, my comerades do not open fire, however, the car crashes into the roundabout spins out of control and hits a lamp post, the driver staggers out clearly disorientated and has a pistol in his hand, I shouted a warning, he points the pistol at a person standing near by. Do I shoot? I have a split second to react and I dont know whether the pistol is loaded or not.

[cheries]

Jake those pictures are rather misleading. No, he is not running at that particular moment; well jeez, that must mean that because he wasn't runnung there that he didn't do later, eh?
Secondly, the two pictures ARE alike, YES THEY ARE!!! They both have short hair and a foreign appearance. If it is proven that the photograph was tampered with thenI agree that the police are trying to cover their tracks, but can you honestly HONESTLY hold your hand on your heart and say that those two men don't look alike, say from 10 meters away?
I know I'd struggle to tell them apart.

[China Doll]

Could you not shoot him in the leg?

[China Doll]

cheries - Honestly, honestly hand on heart, yes I can tell them apart. Their skin colours are completely different.

[4GS]

No, a wounded terrorist is still armed and has the potential to kill

[libertie]

To be honest I think that cherries objectivity is being clouded by the fact that she is living on a knife edge waiting for the next attack!!

[China Doll]

I don't think that's very fair on cheries.

I'm pretty sure most of us go quite happily about our business without living in fear.

I worry more about the bloke at work who keeps looking at me oddly and talkling to me than I do about mass murdering, suicidal martyrs it has to be said.

[cheries]

Well libertie, you just keep living in blissful ignorance, and I'll carry on replying from my nuclear bunker lmao!!!!!

[libertie]

Actually those were cherries words not mine! I do go about my business quite happily and rarely give it a second thought!