Crosswords1 min ago
Photo manipulated at Meneze trial
The Met Police has been accused of manipulating a photo of Jean Charles de Menezes.
The image had been "stretched and sized". The face proportions had been distorted and the skin tones darkened to look more like a middle eastern look.
The image was then shown next to a 21/7 plotter to give the impression the two faces were similar.
In short, the Police are fabricating evidence. If the Police think they have no case to answer, why are they resorting to falsifying evidence?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7048756.stm
The image had been "stretched and sized". The face proportions had been distorted and the skin tones darkened to look more like a middle eastern look.
The image was then shown next to a 21/7 plotter to give the impression the two faces were similar.
In short, the Police are fabricating evidence. If the Police think they have no case to answer, why are they resorting to falsifying evidence?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7048756.stm
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I think this case is absolutely disgusting. Our country is constantly under the threat of terrorism and we are all living on a knife edge, waiting for the next attack. I am an honest and law abiding citizen and I understand that if Armed Police ask me to stop in a public place then I should damn well stop. This guy had over stayed his Visa limits and ran away from police as a result of his fear at being deported.
I am appalled that the police can be criticised in such a way so they have to explain why they shot a man who was running away from them towards a packed tube train at a time of such heightened awareness.
I know someone who works for the armed response unit of the police and he is not a trigger happy killer, he is highly HIGHLY trained and feels it is his responsibility to protect the public in the way he had been trained.
I am appalled that the police can be criticised in such a way so they have to explain why they shot a man who was running away from them towards a packed tube train at a time of such heightened awareness.
I know someone who works for the armed response unit of the police and he is not a trigger happy killer, he is highly HIGHLY trained and feels it is his responsibility to protect the public in the way he had been trained.
Hi Grom, I don't think the manipulation WAS justified, no. I agree that the police are trying to arrange things around their case (like the traces of coke found in his system) but I stand by my point that this is a witch hunt and the police are being villified for reacting to what they saw as a genuine threat.
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At the end of the day the police shot an innocent man, had they not shot him and he blew up the train, then they would be under fire as to why he wasn`t shot
They didn`t need to mess around with his photo to make him look like the 21/7 plotter, as for the cocaine found in his system, they might as well make it public knowledge
The country was on red alert the day this happened, the police are now being made scapegoats, next time there`s another red alert and the police go in with the softly softly approach and hundreds of people are killed they`ll be in the dock again for not doing enough to stop it
They didn`t need to mess around with his photo to make him look like the 21/7 plotter, as for the cocaine found in his system, they might as well make it public knowledge
The country was on red alert the day this happened, the police are now being made scapegoats, next time there`s another red alert and the police go in with the softly softly approach and hundreds of people are killed they`ll be in the dock again for not doing enough to stop it
I couldn't agree more with you Elvis.
And let's not forget here that the police didn't shoot an innocent man; that makes it sound like the punishment for being a suicide bomber in this country is to be shot. He was being forcibly stopped from entering a train when the police believed him to be a threat. They were not judging him and handing down a sentence.
I personally feel that the police are the victims here.
I know what kind of response this will elicit from some on here but I would rather have the armed response squad on my streets than off it due to their judgement being brought into question.
And let's not forget here that the police didn't shoot an innocent man; that makes it sound like the punishment for being a suicide bomber in this country is to be shot. He was being forcibly stopped from entering a train when the police believed him to be a threat. They were not judging him and handing down a sentence.
I personally feel that the police are the victims here.
I know what kind of response this will elicit from some on here but I would rather have the armed response squad on my streets than off it due to their judgement being brought into question.
cheries i think you have fallen for the polices propaganda, this poor guy never ran from anyone, he wasn't given the change... all he did was pick up a paper, walk slowly through the barriers, jog the down half the stairs to catch a train and take a seat - he was then pointed at by an undercover cop when armed response burst through the door (this being the first sign to him that police were present) he then stood up... this is all he did - at which point he was grabbed by the undercover officer who held his hands apart and forced him back into his seat he was then shot multiple times in the head, the undercover police officer was then restrained and had guns pointed at him until he could identify himself.
i find it amazing you are still buying into the propaganda that those in power circulated after the shoot - i accept that mistakes can happen even tragic ones but this whole mess was managed appallingly had people should be sacked... especially those that lied to the public, or at least didn't set the record straight, and those that managed to attack in the first place - if there were concerns they should have stopped him long before he got near the underground where officers are out of touch with command due to no radio signals...
yes the case is a terrible disgrace to the police who should have done a lot better
i find it amazing you are still buying into the propaganda that those in power circulated after the shoot - i accept that mistakes can happen even tragic ones but this whole mess was managed appallingly had people should be sacked... especially those that lied to the public, or at least didn't set the record straight, and those that managed to attack in the first place - if there were concerns they should have stopped him long before he got near the underground where officers are out of touch with command due to no radio signals...
yes the case is a terrible disgrace to the police who should have done a lot better
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Evlis the problem here was that they were going softly softly - no one was making any decisions, they let him get on a bus... WHY if they thought he was a bomber... they let him go underground... WHY .... they let him get on a train... WHY
he could have been challenged at any point as he had been watched since leaving his flat.... in fact the police bosses waited until the decision was taken out of their hands by being cut off from their officers underground.... who then acted in a bizarre manner because they had been starved of information from a police intelligence system that just wasn't working properly!
he could have been challenged at any point as he had been watched since leaving his flat.... in fact the police bosses waited until the decision was taken out of their hands by being cut off from their officers underground.... who then acted in a bizarre manner because they had been starved of information from a police intelligence system that just wasn't working properly!
And you're posting this from a trained and tactical point of view, are you ?
If I ran away from armed police officers who clearly warned me to stay where I was then I would have to take the consequences.
I repeat, this guy made things ten times worse for himself by trying to side step the police. And he paid with his life.
If I ran away from armed police officers who clearly warned me to stay where I was then I would have to take the consequences.
I repeat, this guy made things ten times worse for himself by trying to side step the police. And he paid with his life.
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Very few people here have ever been in a situation where they have had to take one life in order to save many others, or had to make a split second decision as to shoot or not. I have and believe me, it is not an easy decision, get it right and you're a hero, get it wrong and you are a criminal (I got it right). Those policemen made the wrong decision (isn't hindsight wonderful), but remember two things,
1) If de Menezes had been a suicide bomber and the Police hesitated then many many other innocent civvilians would have been killed or wounded.
2) Unfortunatly we are in the middle of 'the war on terror' and in every war innocent people get killed.
1) If de Menezes had been a suicide bomber and the Police hesitated then many many other innocent civvilians would have been killed or wounded.
2) Unfortunatly we are in the middle of 'the war on terror' and in every war innocent people get killed.
lol. Point taken.
My ex-husband works in Iraq and he is faced with situations like these every single day. Everyone is a potential suicide bomber. The public are warned to stay back 100 metres or they will be shot dead. The Iraqis know they have to stay away because otherwise their behaviour will be perceived as a threat and actions will be taken to eradicate that threat.
This is not Social Work at its best. This is a genuine danger to the public being dealt with in a legal and appropriate manner.
My ex-husband works in Iraq and he is faced with situations like these every single day. Everyone is a potential suicide bomber. The public are warned to stay back 100 metres or they will be shot dead. The Iraqis know they have to stay away because otherwise their behaviour will be perceived as a threat and actions will be taken to eradicate that threat.
This is not Social Work at its best. This is a genuine danger to the public being dealt with in a legal and appropriate manner.
You're arguing this using two different versions of events.
In one, he ran away from police despite being told to stop and then he resisted attempts to stop him boarding the train.
In the other, he made no attempt to run away and wasn't even made aware that the police were after him. Then he boarded the train without any obstruction.
Which is it? And where are you getting the facts from? (Just so I know myself)
In one, he ran away from police despite being told to stop and then he resisted attempts to stop him boarding the train.
In the other, he made no attempt to run away and wasn't even made aware that the police were after him. Then he boarded the train without any obstruction.
Which is it? And where are you getting the facts from? (Just so I know myself)
the version of events i made describing (badly i'm afraid) is what the police officers involved have described during the trial and from watching the cctv on JCM walking through the station (and previously being on the bus and leaving his house etc)... the other version of events are watch was reported directly after the shooting when the police were withholding the information and news papers were wildly reporting the shooting of a terrorist - it was here that the lying began when senior police officers began twisting the details and not setting the papers right when they published erroneous stories.
I agree with 4GS that these life or death decisions are not going to be easy, and i feel for the officers involved, they are not going to be prosecuted and neither should they be. What i am angry about is how this situation was managed right upto the shooting by their commanders and then following the shooting when senior officers right up to Ian Blair were either lying about events or omitting very important facts
I agree with 4GS that these life or death decisions are not going to be easy, and i feel for the officers involved, they are not going to be prosecuted and neither should they be. What i am angry about is how this situation was managed right upto the shooting by their commanders and then following the shooting when senior officers right up to Ian Blair were either lying about events or omitting very important facts
Jeepers Creepers Groms.. I mean, it almost sounds like the police didn't follow their own policies and shot an innocent man and then released a load of propoganda brought in to by much of the general public to try and cover up their actions.
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