The Farce of Fortress Britain

[naomi24]

What an ill thought-out plan. Won't a potential bomber get around this by avoiding stations with high security in place, and simply boarding the train elsewhere?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics /article2872802.ece

[Sweep2k]

They should make people wear tight-fitting clothing and carry transparent bags, so that they can't hide bombs or guns.

Not just at train stations and airports, but anywhere in the UK.

If you've got nothing to hide, what's the problem? It's a minor inconvenience that will save lives.

[naomi24]

Sweep, you've missed the point. High security will be in place at major railway stations, but at other stations there will be no extra security. At our local station, for example, travellers can't even buy a ticket because the station isn't manned. Therefore if a bomber wanted to blow up a train, why would he run the risk of getting caught by attempting to board a train at a station with high security measures in place when he could get on a train here without the slightest chance of being stopped?

[Sweep2k]

As the link says:

"Improved security installations, designed to prevent car bomb attacks, are to be installed initially at the 250 railway stations judged most at risk of an attack by terrorists."

So the measures aren't designed to prevent people blowing up trains. They're to stop car bomb attacks at the 250 busiest stations - the stations that represent the best targets for car-bombing terrorists. The likelihood of terrorists targeting a tiny rural station with two platforms and no ticket office are pretty small anyway.

[Gromit]

It is stuff like this which adversely affect our lives which proves the terrorists have won. Seeing their handywork has caused so much of a reaction will only encourage them.

When there was the IRA bomb threat, the security was descreet and designed to lessen the terror. Now, we have more technology to undertake less intrusive security, and the security is designed to heighten the terror and anxiety before we travel. But when the IRA were active, there were not two pointless wars to justify.

Making the threat bigger than it actually is, makes being in Iraq and Afghanistan appear justified,

[China Doll]

I agree absolutely with Gromit on this.

All we see on a daily basis is fear mongering and it's sickening.

[paulos66]

Yes I agree sweep, I suppose a terrorist would just say oh dear my initial target is too secure, I'd better give up the whole idea altogether

[Sweep2k]

Good thinking paulos. Let's set up bag screening at every station.

Just so I know, from where shall we take the funds to pay for it? Prisons, hospitals or schools?

[China Doll]

Orphanage Sweep? They've got loads of cash I expect.

[jno]

Jonathan Ross's pay packet? I hear there's a substantial gap between what he makes and what he earns.

[naomi24]

Sweep, The article also says rail travellers face having their bags searched and screened, and whilst you're absolutely right in saying that bombers wouldn't target a tiny rural station, you're clearly overlooking the fact that trains from tiny rural stations are usually destined for major city stations - and in the mornings and evenings are packed to overflowing with commuters. Your suggestion to paulos clarifies precisely the absurdity of the scheme, and I couldn't agree with you more.

[luna-tic]

I was travelling back to my home one year on the train from only a relatively short distance away.
The train stopped about two miles from the station and all the passengers looked at one another after we were still sat there forty-five minutes later and then some guy speaking in part English-part Gibberish announced on the speaker system something about a security problem,
emphasising not to leave the train.
Another hour went by.
We then started to roll at an incredibly slow pace toward the station and straight past it while being told that we will need to make other arrangements as the train will be stopping at another place thirty-five miles away.
I finally got home and found out it was a bomb scare.
The station is still exactly the same today security-wise
or should I say......no security.
Glad I'm still around to talk about it though.

[naomi24]

Hi Luny, I'm glad you're still around to talk about it too. You've just hit the nail on the head. It's impossible to make the railways secure, since there are so many stations without any form of security whatsoever where people can get on or off a train at will.

[luna-tic]

I should of added that my station is in a small town and some trains travel from one end of the country to the other while visiting, stopping at major cities along it's way. So the risks are increased.

[Sweep2k]

We're all glad you're safe luna-tic.

But please bear in mind that the danger that we face is massively, massively over-blown. Not just by the media but by the government.

The more scared you are, the easier you are to govern.

And, as Gromit says, the more we fret and change our way of life to stave off this minute threat, the more the terrorists have won.

[luna-tic]

Hello Sweep,
I do agree that there maybe an amount of scare-tactics used by governments but the reality of people carrying out bombings etc is a scare-tactic put into practise.
No one will really change their day to day life unless something has happened to them, a loved one or friend.
That kind of reality can eat deep into the psyche of those directly involved and even those who have seen death from afar.

[MrBen5]

Hmmm, i dont think the government is scare mongering, they have lots of intel about another suicide attack happening soon.
The government are protecting those which are most at risk. A suicide bomber wont go bomb some 'other' station as its not their target , as someone earlier says...

[jake-the-peg]

Gosh I seem to be agreeing with MrBen - must be some sort of children in need special occasion!

You can't protect everyone/everything so you concentrate on the most probable targets.

Don't forget, the IRA bombed the Brighton Grand and put a mortar shell into the garden of number 10, and a nut managed to put a bullet into Ronald Reagan.

OK those were a long time ago but it goes to show how difficult it is to secure even the most valuable target

[MrBen5]

Hey come on, everyone agrees with me deep down in their heart. Even the most hardened of you.
Its just that nobody ever likes to admit it...

[naomi24]

Mr Ben, the barriers will be put in place at major stations to prevent car bomb attacks, but the screening and searching of bags is aimed at preventing bombers from boarding trains - and that they can do anywhere. Stations of any description aren't their target - trains are - and they don't have to board at a main station in order to blow up a train full of people.

[MrBen5]

Hmmm, naomi, i dont know if you know, but all they are interested in is status. They will only attack things of status.
By that, i mean they would rather attack manchester arndale rather than blackburn arndale.
Where they live, no-one has heard of blackburn arndale.
I think everyone needs to be extra vigilant over the next few months though as Xmas should be a time for happiness...