Hamas

[123everton]

Just watched the Channel 4 documentary on Hamas, I can't help but feel we've been here before.
The Jews (they say) are their misfortune (ok I'm paraphrasing), the Executive Force are equivalent to the brown shirts, and the desire to reclaim lost land to Israel is equivalent to the repeal of the Treaty Of Versailles.
Am I wrong in suggesting that political Islam is a modern variant on old fashioned facism?

[jno]

I think the point about fascism is it's organised; it involves tight control from the centre and a rejection of any outsiders. Islamic resistance movements are pretty much the opposite: locally run (though they may have links with others), generally poorly funded - the missiles fired into Israel , though they may kill, are by no means weapons of mass destruction and far inferior to the Israelis' military might - and not really very effective. What power they have seems to come from widespread public support. In some places, eg Egypt, they're popular because they provide strong social serviees (eg health) that the state can't afford.

[123everton]

The NSDAP had loose links with other right wing organisations but either almalgamated, took over or just outperformed them. They use the same style of rhetoric and whereas the NSDAP was an atheist politically religious organisation based on doctrines founded in science (to them) race and a perjured form of Darwin's teaching, the other is a religious political organisation with a doctrine based in the writings solely (almost) in the sword verses.
If you substitute science for the Koran, race for Muslim and Jew for Kuffar then the two are almost identical.

[Theland]

Islam is a Hydra with many heads, some smiling benignly, some wearing the label of freedom fighter, some poorly trained and funded, some building mosques in the west, and some confined to national boundaries, but they all have a common agenda, but approach it differently.

[123everton]

Well again Hitler took his early ideological teachings from late 19th century Pan-Germanism, whereas Bin Laden is unashamedly a Pan-Arabist albeit with a wahabi agenda.
Dotted around Europe at the time there were enclaves of ethnic Germans (emigrants) who passionately believed in Hitler (and earlier Pan-Germanism) who wanted not to come home to the Reich but have the Reich to come home to them, they behaved like kings killing at will once the Germans got there.
Hitler was always "reasonable" in his requests regaining territory, rebuilding the military etc. equally some Muslim demands are said to be "reasonable" and only affect them (I also heard one gentleman say that their solutions were cheap which is irrelevant) I can't help but feel that appeasement is'nt going to work for much longer and given that Britain is a resoundingly secular country (some would say predominanitely atheist) it's time that people who oppose the creep creep creep of theocracy stood up and defended their values (they hate the word belief) system.
Sometimes I look at the fractious nature of the people of this country and I think of the International Brigade squabbling over who and what is right whilst letting Franco march straight through them.
There are moderate Muslims (lots of em) and they should be embraced and emboldened (women in particular) in this country.
If you believe in secular governance, and a tolerant society then you need to defend it with words now.

[Gromit]

Fascism and religion (all forms) have always been intertwined.

The Christian Right in the United States, Fundamental Islam in the middle east or Jewish Nationalism, all fascists one and the same.

We must promote democracy and secularism. Keep the religious bigots where they belong, in the first millennia.

[123everton]

One does'nt need to be religious to be a bigot, I know more atheist bigots than any other.
Zionism, fundamentalism, Hindu nationalism and (some) American evangelism are no more (arguably far less) extreme than the atheist doctrines adopted by Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao. There are safeguards for instance for Iranian Christians.
I'm a Christian by creed, but overtly secular in my politics the time has come to stand up for a plural secular democracy with one rule of law.

[carsonking]

Whats wrong with being a bigot, we all hate somone or some type of person wheather it being Muslim, Jew, Christian, black, white, French, German, pikey,middle class, working class, hippie, hoody,male female, gay, druggie,liberal, conservative, socialist, commy, nazi or any other type of person you don't like. Just because you like the people other people hate, don't make you a sunbeam, thier 'unfounded' ideas about people are the same as your own 'unfounded' ideas about people. You may have been lucky when comeing across pikeys for instance and see only good, me, they are a bunch of robbing bstds but hay hoe, i like people you hate.And the person who loves all is either Budah or lives in a cave, dislikeing people and putting them all in the same pot is life boy, as the bar of soap said.

[123everton]

If you want to hate people that's fine, it's a free country. I may dislike some of the things people say on here, but i defend their right to say it.
Trouble is with the examples above is that it's not that they hate each other it's the way they hate each other.
The gypsys I've met (very few) were OK (I've known worse people) but I agree with you to the extent if they set up camp at the back of my house I'd be cacking it every time I left the house.
That said I don't think extermination is the answer.
Gotta dash..