The 10p tax fiasco.....

[R1Geezer]

Now I may not be brain of Britain but even I can see what the consequences of dropping the 10p tax band would be. Surely Brown and co must have realised what a c0ck up it would be and even if they didn't surely the civil service advisors would have warned them. So can anyone explain how such a monumental balls up actually got past the powers that be and should we be worried that clearly the people that run the show have sh1t for brains?

[4GS]

These guys warned him what the consequences would be last year

http://www.biz-lib.com/products/ZEMITR.html

http://www.internationaltaxreview.com/

None so blind as those who will not see

[Le Chat]

The words 'completely out of touch' spring to mind. I'm sure Gordon doesn't even have to worry about the everyday realities of emptying his grey bin on the correct week, never mind the realities of the lives of the poorly paid. Maybe he thought that losing a couple of hundred quid a year wouldn't really affect anyone, seeing as how it means virtually nothing to him on his fabulous wage.

[R1Geezer]

At least we can still make lust eh LeChat!

[34years]

our gordon god bless him was on tv this morning and he said i am a father of two children , i understand the problems a family face.i think this tw@t is on drugs give me my tax back now PLEASE

[jake-the-peg]

So when did you spot the problem Geezer?

Last year? I don't recall you raising it before?

Or when it was brought to your attention by the press?

It's pretty easy to see these things in retrospect

Let's not forget it was brown who introduced the 10p Tax band in the first place, reduced the basic rate of tax and introduced the minimum wage (which the Tories strongly opposed)

He misjudged the effect that it would have on the lowest and the back benchers have done their job in sticking up for their constituants.

I can imagine Margaret Thatcher in that situation shrilly shrieking " the Lady's not for Turning!" and ignoring everyone.

Would just have been better to acknowledge the error and fix it sooner.

Do the Tories actually have a policy on this anyway? Has Osbourne said whether he'd have removed or left the 10p band?/

Or is he just sniping from the sidelines like a political lightweight?

[pusspuss]

have the tories got a POLICY ? full stop. the only thing i have heard is they will bring back fox hunting

[R1Geezer]

Well jake, in this case it was patently obvious what the effect will be, you don't have to put your hand in fire to know it will hurt! I remember when Brown actually did it in the 2007 budget, thinking: "that's going to hit the poor" and of course as Brown seemed to have a habit of announcing things a year before they take effect I'd forgotten about it for a year. MrsT would never ave been that stupid old chap!

[R1Geezer]

"bring back fox hunting" mmm It's never been away! Go for a drive in the country on Boxing day!

[DrFilth]

i thought boxing day was for boxers ???????

[New Judge]

The problem is that MPs in general and government ministers in particular have no idea how what they see as small changes to people�s incomes can seriously affect their lives. In addition this current administration is obsessed with taxing everybody to the hilt and paying back smaller amounts to those they perceive to be in need.

This version of �fairness� is so ingrained in their psyche that I believe Gordon Brown and his ministers were under the impression that everybody on low salaries was in receipt of the benefits that are on offer to some people in this category. It did not cross their mind to think otherwise and they had no idea the effect of their actions would have upon such large numbers.

Having said that, all the MPs of all parties (many of whom were allegedly jumping up and down over the issue in the past few weeks) have one big question to answer which I have not seen addressed anywhere in the whole debate. That is, why, when the measure was announced in March 2007, did it take them until April 2008 (when people had begun to pay the extra tax) to raise the matter. They had a year to do so, and none of them � of any party � did so.

The �compensation� announced by the Chancellor is insufficient and misdirected. There are still about 1m people (those with a net income of below �13,540 by my calculation) who are still worse off. Meanwhile everybody earning between that and the high rate (40p) tax threshold is better off, including many millions who were unaffected in the first place.

Couple this with the fact that the funds (�2.7bn) to pay this compensation will have to be borrowed (probably costing about �135m in interest) and the enormity of the cods up is apparent.

It may buy the government a few extra votes in the Crewe by-election (of those who cannot do a few simple sums) but it would not buy mine.

[New Judge]

I've just read your post, jake.

I personally did spot the implications last year. A few friends and I were in the pub and roughly calculated the effect of the measures in our heads - no calculator or civil servants necessary.

I didn't raise it on AB but did write to my (Tory) MP. (I thought that might produce better results).

Needless to say I was wrong. Apart form the usual "Mr X thanks you for your letter and has noted the contents" I received no other reply. So at least my MP's wife's secretary's deputy assistant was aware of my concerns.

[youngmafbog]

McBottle is an arragant g*t. The sooner he is gone the better.

Jake, get your head out the sand. Thatcher went years ago Since being in power Bottler Brown had raised taex by 50%, most of it by deciept and stealth. This was then squandered on noo labour pet projects so that when things get a bit tight there is nothing left to give, which is what we are experiencing now.

And lets not forget 3 things 1) The readjustment they have announced still does not fully address the problem and many poor folk are still out of pocket 2) It is for one year noly so what happens next (or doesn't he expect to be around) 3) The money has been borrowed - at the time the country can least afford it.

Lets face it Brown has made a mess of it and he is now reaping what he has sown.

I suspect his Tonyness saw all this coming and got out.

As for Fox hunting. Get a grip there are far more important things than that at the moment.

[New Judge]

And there always were. Especially when MPs and the Lords spent many, many hours debating the issue.

[DrFilth]

youngmafbog As for Fox hunting. Get a grip there are far more important things than that at the moment.

not if you are fox

[pusspuss]

nice one doc

[New Judge]

But there are if you are a taxpayer with an income of less than �13,540 and are not in receipt of any benefits. MPs are paid by taxpayers, not foxes.

[DarkMajes71c]

Having heard what good old GB is like in meetings from people who work/worked in the treasury he was omnipotent and liked to micromanage everything. he was not well liked and does not listen to advice from people who have been running the system since long before labour were in power. ideal prim minister material don�t you think...

just so you know it would take about 24 hours to re-impliment the 10p tax bracket but would probably cost a hell of a lot more to get it done.

[sp1214]

I assume we employ civil servants to work out costings on their computers. The politicians come up with the ideas and obviously were not informed of the potential losers. In this instance I feel sorry for Brown having such incompetents working for that department.

[Tichfield]

Not informed by the civil servants?

Don't make me laugh.

It was obvious to anybody that if instead of people paying tax at 10%, they were going to have to pay tax at 20%, then they would be worse off!

Even Brown could have worked that out for himself.