Has Britain ceased to be British?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-105289 4/MAIL-COMMENT-How-Britishness-betrayed.html

This also makes disturbing reading, why is this individual allowed to walk our streets?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-105187 3/Hate-preacher-Abu-Qatadas-bail-conditions-re view-meeting-car-bomb-extremist.html

[Kromovaracun]

The case of Abu Qatada definitely exposes weaknesses and flaws in the Britih judicial system - which arguably need to be built upon/improved. I think it 's verging on melodrama to say that it's symptomatic of the death of the country

A few thoughts:

The Church of England is close to dissolution, more concerned with gay bishops than providing moral guidance

This is a gross exaggeration. The CofE is divided over homosexuality, but divisions have and always will exist. That's a far cry from being close to dissolution.

Our sovereignty is sacrificed to Europe. Constitutional tinkering encourages Scottish separatism.

The Factortame incident is just about the only case where UK law has been overturned by the EU. The EU heads are also too divided an cautious to really bring forward serious encroachments on national soveriegnty. True, they make worrying noises about it - but support is far too ambiguous and murky for them to push too far with it.

Plus Parliament retains the power to leave the EU at any time (even though we get shedloads of cash from our membership but y'know what I mean).

Sadly, Britain is governed by career politicians who think they know best and couldn't care less about public opinion.

On the contrary, I'd say there are too many people who care too much about leaning toward every public whim.

Politicians aren't delegates - they aren't meant to be people who obey your every order. They're supposed to represent what they think is in your interests, and you can vote for whoever you think is right. But that's very different to politicians responding to every public whim - if that happened then believe me the country really would be on the fast lane to hell.

[Abdulmajid]

To answer your question (not the Mail bits)

Englands Cricket Team (a probably line up)

1) Strauss (born in Africa)
2) Prior (born in Africa)
3) Kevin Pieterson (born in Africa)
4) Owais Shah (born in Pakistan)
5) Ravi Bopara (born in UK JUST!!!!!!!)
6) Samit Patel (born in UK JUST!!!!!!)
7) Andrew Flintoff (AT LAST A TRUE ENGLISHMAN)
8) Dimitri Mascarenhas (Lord Knows?????)
9) Steve Harmison (AGAIN!!!!!)
10) Jimmy Anderson (AGAIN!!!!)
11) Monty Panesar (Born in the UK JUST!!!!!!)


Welcome to England.
10)

[anotheoldgit]

Great post Kromovaracun, you make some valid points, although there are some I disagree with, mainly Europe, (we pay more into Europe than we get out),and your statement that politicians lean too much towards every public whim.

[anotheoldgit]

Abdulmajid

Yes pathetic isn't it?

And that is just cricket, what about the Soccer players and their clubs owners and Managers?

Time long overdue to get back to the times when your Towns/Cities players were all local lads.

They were the days when you could cheer on your club, knowing you were truly supporting your Town or City, and not because your players were the best your club could afford, even though they had no local pride.

[New Judge]

Much of what you say is true,Kromovaracun, but a couple of points:

The UK does not get �shedloads of cash� from our membership of the EU. This country is a net contributor to the EU budget and it costs UK taxpayers an estimated �6bn per annum for the privilege of membership. Every time �poorer� countries join the bloc this figure increases. Whilst it is true that some of this money is returned to the UK in the form of grants, it is not under the control of the UK�s MPs.

It is quite true that MPs are not delegates � but they should be. The idea of having a representative at Westminster is that he or she should put forward or support measures that the constituents say are in their best interests, not what the Members might think are the best.

Sadly the Westminster parliament is now reduced to the status of not much more than a Parish council. More than two thirds of new legislation originates in Brussels and Westminster has no function other than to rubber stamp it. �Britishness� is being eroded at such a rate by this pernicious phenomenon that it will all but disappear within a generation.

The only way to reverse this is for the UK to leave the EU forthwith and reform the party political system that sees MPs as representatives of their party rather than of their constituents.

[Lucy Thomas]

Plus Parliament retains the power to leave the EU at any time (even though we get shedloads of cash from our membership but y'know what I mean).

I didn't think that there was anyone who still believed this old chestnut.

We give FAR more than we get back and it is disingenuous to say we can leave at any time because both major parties in Britain, i.e. the only ones realistically capable of being elected to government, are both committed to Britain's membership of the corrupt EU.

[Kromovaracun]

it is disingenuous to say we can leave at any time because both major parties in Britain, i.e. the only ones realistically capable of being elected to government, are both committed to Britain's membership of the corrupt EU.


So don't vote for them... Duh.

You do realise that the UK has long had a reputation among EU heads as a difficult (and rather annoying) partner, right?

Look, the political side of the EU isn't so much a big conspiracy (like it's always made out to be) as it is a big mess. There's loads of people in it who have loads of ideas of where the Union should stop and where it should go and what it should look like and they're not going to stop falling over each other anytime soon. It's easy to seize on the measures which look like they're going to subordinate us, but the EU is really too messy to pose a threat to sovereignty.

You can hardly blame them for trying to codify and clear it up (even if they failed miserably and stupidly ignored every democratic indicator that showed it to be unpopular...)

we pay more into Europe than we get out

I'll attack this general point which about 3 people have made.

It's true that this is how it looks when you compare UK financial contributions to the EU grants and things we get in return. But remember the EU has it's roots in a simple common market and economic co-operation organisation. The looser trade rules have brought in tons of indirect cash: Europe is the UK's biggest export market. The freedom of movement for goods and labour has also eased partnerships and dealings between British and European businesses, and also allowed further inflow of products and services from across the continent. Take a look in your nearest supermarket if you don't believe me. For consumers, that's a very real benefit - especially with food prices going up the way they are.

All of the

[Kromovaracun]

above have contributed in invisible ways to the economy over the years.

*Breath*

A point I forgot to reitereate: It's true that neither of the two main parties are quite so anti-European as to want to withdraw. Even though they can. That's long been a fault of British politics - it's dominated by two parties. Y'know who's to blame? Us. The British people lap up tribalism and party politics like it's going out of style. Even in the USA - two parties dominate in name, but the political spectrum of candidates within each party is extremely varied.

If you want to be better represented, think more about your vote. Even if whoever you vote for doesn't win, it is capable of sending a message to the two major parties.