child abuse

[tigerlily11]

When is some one going to put their foot down and change the laws concerning people like these.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7606 190.stm

[tigerlily11]

Andy do donate to the NSPCC.
I have for a long time, but there are certain situation that require more than money. This would appear to be one of them.
Ok point taken about the name calling but you opening lines in your first reply were a little self rightious.
"Here we go again - trying to outdo each other with our moral outrage."
It is not trying to out do eachother, these are statements of anger and outrage at a social and legal system that offers little or no protection to the most vunarable in society.
I would be a social worker but I would never be able to keep my temper with people that have children yet have no interest in them other than the money they can get by having them and those who just don't care.
I know they are over worked but there are certain areas of society that need to me kept an eye on more than others.
The elderly, the young and so on.
It would seem that no matter how much money is put in or how many lessons they say they have learned, nothing changes so maybe it is time to change the rules so we can endevour to stop this from happening again and those who do this are punished properly.
If people don't rant then nothing gets done. It will just take a hell of a lot of us to stand up and rant loud and long until some one with a brain listens and decides the time has come to make a set of rules as to what makes a human elligable to have human rights and draw lines that when crossed, will result in the loss of those rights. If you want to be treated like a human being then behave like one.
Life is, as stated the most precious thing we have, the right to have children is a an honor, there for those who see fit to take that life in the ways discribed in these stories should have their rights removed,

[andy-hughes]

Hello tigerlilly11

Your argument is well put, and I think we will simply have to agree to differ on our reaction to circumstances, even though we do feel fundamentally the same sense of horror and outrage at what happens to innocent children.

I simply feel that finding ever more inventive ways to inflict pain and misery on the perpetrators simply puts us into a similar mindset as them, and is a step on a slippery slope.

That is not to say that I don't feel the same levels of imptent rage as other posters, I simply don't vent them in that way because I feel it is unhelpful, and goads feelings of vigilanteism which have no place in a civilsed society.

If I appeared self-righteous, please accept my apoligies, that was certainly not my intention.

And I do donate regularly to the NSPCC, and I was a Samaritan for three years, so I know something about the dark side of our society - which colours my wish not to add to the neagitrivity involved.

[tigerlily11]

Apology excepted Andy. My thoughts are that we have to either except and tackle those in society who wish not to behave like a civilised human beings and strip them of their rights or find a way to delete this part of human behaviour.
That in itself woulf be considered by some as an infringment of human rights.
My husband, with whom I regularly have this debate, thinks that in some people the only thing they do understand is violence and pain and to treat them with that is often the only way they learn. I point out that the death penalty never solved anything but a better more prolonged sentence as I suggested might. Being alone with nothing but the thoughts of ones crimes is by far a better sentence that a quick death. Fred West knew that.
Prison is far to soft an approach as we can see just by the reports in the media and the couldn't careless attitude of criminals.
I still think that if a person who is found guilty of crimes against a child, especially their own, should never have the right to have any more.
I work for the CAB and while not as stressful as the Samaritans I find that the people who often arrive for the most part are there because of no fault of their own. But some are.
I feel that there is no incouragement in society to make people take responsibility for themselves any more.
I could give you my own personal nightmare story of a person who while I understand had a terrible child hood, went on to commit terrible child abuse and attacked myself as well, but dispite the past they knew what they were doing and they knew it was wrong. But they still walked away with no form of punisment themselves on the bases that they had it bad.
Well so did I but I wouldn't dream of harming some one else because of it.
Yes we will have to agree to disagree Andy.
But I think we both want the same thing.
We want it to stop.

[Quinlad]

Andy, tiger. Very good posts.

I'm guessing that Andy's beef was with those that don't offer solutions - as you've both done - but who believe that there's a correlation between how angry you are and how much you care. And that the angrier your ranting, the more you'll seem to be standing up for chldren's welfare.

The result is that debates get bogged down in angry mobness and nothing comes of it.

[tigerlily11]

We must except Quinland that every body is capable of anger. But for most it is instant, it last for maybe a few hours and then reason will kick in.
I feel still that a good form of justice is still needed with out it there is no fairness and to put an end to it we need that fairness. A sense that those who have commited these crimes have been made to pay. Otherwise for most people would have no reason to behave because there would be no consequences.
Ty Quinland for your comments and having had those few hours for reason to kick in I can see what Andy is getting at but it still does not compensate for the anger I feel at a system that fails the most vunerable.
We can only do so much. But I think it is time for some one in the justice system to put aside the advice of those who seek to place the blame everywhere else except where it should be placed, with the criminal.