Whistle blower.....

[R1Geezer]

So an ex Haringay social services worker, had informed ministers that the Haringay social services where "Out of control" and that children where in danger. So dispite the usual apologists rantings is it now clear that the social services are as I mentioned previously a usless shower of idiots? Are ministers now also culpable? How many more kids on their books are in danger? Should we parachute some sort of local authority "special forces" into this den of incompetence before any more kids are tortured and murdered by lowlives?

[Octavius]

Whilst it does well to acknowledge failings in the service of the social services so that things may improve for other children, we must also be mindful that it was not the care workers who carried out these acts of evil.

I can�t imagine myself being able to do their job, and witnessing what they do day in day out, whilst having the responsibility of a childs health and safety and then making life changing decisions, which will affect children and families for years. Decisions which might be wrong, or might result in them being vilified by the public or trounced by the families involved.

Could you do their job?

[tigerlily11]

No it is not an easy job. There are so many pit falls in the law that any rat bag parent can pull the wool with ease, simply because the rights of the parent are often put before the child. However not always as there are many parents out there who have no access to their kids. Usually because the authorities have not bothered to ask probing questions.
Things have to change and soon but I can't see it chnaging at all so long as the nature of human rights remains as it is.

[monkeyeyes]

No, Octavius, I couldn't do their job..........
But neither did I make a decision to become a Social Worker, undergo extensive training in how to deal with such situations and willingly accept a wage packet from Haringay Council at the end of a week..........

If the workload was beyond them, they had a duty of care to their clients (the children in the main) to step aside a let someone more competent take control.

If enough of them had done this instead of cowering behind ever-increasing piles of case-files we might not be getting these recurring horror stories.

[The Sherman]

First off Monkey -Do you ever make mistakes in your job?
I fhte answer is yes then you know that it is ok for a social worker to make a mistake as well -otherwise your a hypocrite!

2nd you talk like you know their work -"cowering behind ever-increasing case files" is that little nugget a factual statement? Or do you just like to make stuff up and hope no-one questions it!

[123everton]

From what I understand about this latest revelation is that informer was told to refer it to the relevant review body (bodies) to be fair that would seem like the rational response at the time any disgruntled employee could ring up the M.P and make an allegation outof mischief. What is worrying is that the informer was then apparently sacked and subsequently given a payout or wrongful dimissal.
I tend to feel that the real story, the real horror goes somewhat deeper.
What is it that has gone wrong with our country that this sort of thing can happen?
I remember many years ago reading about a 12 year old getting pregnant the most shocking for me was that I was'nt shocked to hear it, these stories digust me but they no longer surprise me (the Jeremy Kyle show today was a prime example) there is something plainly wrong with our society but I fear everybody is too afraid or too dishonest to accept that and are far too unwiling to make the changes neccessary.

[monkeyeyes]

The Sherman - any mistakes I make do not have such potentially disasterous ramifications.
FYI I have worked in a 'similar' environment and watched colleagues start to flounder - this also had a significant impact on lives...........
And yes, I have seen beleagured workers cower behind case-files as they become overwhelmed...........and not a single damn one of them was man/woman enough to say 'I can't do this' and ask for help.........they were too scared to risk their wage packet.

I hope that is enoughfactual information for you ?

[R1Geezer]

Precisely Monkey, they are too afraid of getting a ********** or a less than glittering appraisal. Like most public sector workers they believe the job exists for them to have a job, the actual function of the job is a secondary consideration. Yes I have worked in the public sector.

[sandmaster]

No, Octavius, I could not do their job, But they didn't either and now they try to blame others and maintain their department is faultless. This is criminal negligence and they should be charged, not just sacked.
To say they did not kill the child is true - but after 60 visits they must have known things were not right. The whistleblower was certainly not happy with the response from her bosses - they are incompetent to the extent of criminal negligence.

[Octavius]

Monkey, you keep mentioning the wage packet. How much exactly do you think they get paid?

I trust you are safe and comfy in your job which doesn�t carry disastrous ramifications should you make an error of judgement, but many people do have to make life and death decisions.

I think it is unfair and downright rude of you to judge them when you have no experience of doing such a role yourself.

[The Sherman]

well Monkey at leat your not a hypocrite but point yourself out to be just stupid!

somehow the wage you earn is linked in to how many mistakes you make?
I don't care how much they earn (which probably isnt that much!) They will still make mistakes!

They're just misfortunate in that their jobs will be more scrutinised than everyone else when things go wrong!

[sandmaster]

Sherman - they didn't make one mistake. This child had 60 visits. And at least one visitor was unhappy and went to the extent of complaining to FOUR MPs!!
For God's sake - lets get some accountability back in this country. This is a child's life we are talking about.
Everyone makes mistakes - but there must be safeguards when you are talking about children, more so when it is a life and death situation, and certainly if 60 visits were necessary for someone so young that in itself must have sounded alarm bells.

[MrsT]

Error of judgement? 60 visits? how many goes do you think they should have to spot a kid with bits missing, bruises and broken bones. Get real Octavius! We all make c0ck ups but generally don't have 60 goes at them.

[luxury]

It was her solicitor that wrote to Patricia Hewitt:

In February 2007, Ms Kemal�s solicitor wrote to the Health Secretary of the time, Patricia Hewitt, and to MPs, alerting her to the problems and calling for a public inquiry. �Statutory child protection procedures are not being followed. Child sex abusers are not being tackled," he wrote

Aid and Abet???

[Octavius]

Look, in relation to the particular case, as I said in my very first post it is clear that there were serious failings in the case of this child, it sickens and saddens me as much as anyone else what has happened to this child. I am by no means making any excuses for the Haringey Social Workers. No doubt they will be suffering some inner torment for a very long time over this.

Yes 60 times, but under very deliberate deception by the parents, including cooperating with visits to the doctor, and attending parenting courses. Their role is primarily as I understand from Government directives, is to keep families together and only remove them in the most severe cases.

It seems that the most crucial failing was the visit by the paediatrician from Great Ormond Street Hospital at the beginning of August.

MrsT, I have seen this for real, so no need for me to 'get real'. Perhaps you could indulge your spare time by seeing just a smidgen of what social workers have to deal with face to face.

[tigerlily11]

Adults have more rights than children. The reason for this is that children can't vote.
Any one that can't vote doesn't count.

[Octavius]

As adults our right to vote involves responsibilities as well as rights, and has consequences when responsibilities are ignored, such as paying higher taxes etc. Children don't have the right to vote but they don't have to take full consequences for their actions either.

There was a think-tank thingy done a few years back recommending that adults with children below the age of 14 should be given an extra vote �on behalf of their children�. That was as popular as a fart in a lift.

[jno]

monkeyeyes, I understand the inability to cope with their workload wasn't because they were incompetent but because they were understaffed. This means a worker might end up with twice as many cases, with each one getting half the time it should. No doubt the council could hire more workers if it put the rates up - but what do you think ratepayers would say to that?

[Lonnie]

Its true, the killers of this child were its mother and stepfather, however, it was the Social Sevices decision to give the child back to them, against the wishes of the police, so in reality, Haringay Social Services are equally to blame.

[Twinkle17]

Completely agree with everything you say monkeyeyes & sandmaster.....

There are NO EXCUSES!!!!!!!!! And if you say you arent making excuses then why the argument?

If you make mistakes, then you have to pay the consequences, especially when the life of a child is involved.

Yes they should be scrutinised more than some others- they are dealing with childrens lives here!!! These children rely on them to do their job and do it properly.....They visited 60 times and FAILED to save this child from the sick twisted pieces of scum that made this poor poor boys life hell.

I am truly shocked that people are defending their actions, or lack of, in this case!

[Octavius]

Twinkle this imbroglio evolves out of the blame culture. Simply put, blame lies with the parents for inflicting the pain upon the child. First and foremost.

Secondly, as I have said, serious failings in the casework carried out for this child by Haringey, and perhaps for the lack of staff and lack of attention to the particularly heinous details of the case. No excuses.

Thirdly, they were more than likely told that funds were not available for placing more children in care, so they needed to focus on ways of keeping families together.

Fourthly they were following protocol as directed by their superiors and by the Government and by legislation. They went through the parenting courses and visits to the doctor and called a paediatrician � as per protocol.

Fifthly a paediatrician decided that the child was fine and failed to notice that it had a broken back and was paralyzed from the waist down.

Sixthly, if any of the above are considered as �making excuses� then is this how you would view any public enquiry carried out and funded by your tax paying money? I am NOT making excuses, but to understand the route of the issue you need to look at the facts. How many of us would be able to live with ourselves knowing that we were personally responsible for the lives of hundreds or thousands of varyingly abused children every day? Wouldn't we look to the organisation that made us do the job the way we did it?