Sir Norman Bettison

[flip_flop]

On last night's Panorama about Karen Matthews he said at the end of the programme (paraphrasing) 'People like this should not be pitied, they should be judged'.

I believe he meant people like Karen Matthews in general, the hoards of scum underclass we have in this country (chavalanche?), and not her specifically.

Hurrah, common sense at last.

Yay or nay?

[cassa333]

Pitied and Judged.

However pity is lost on these people as they genuinely believe they haven't done anything wrong and that what they are doing and want to do is thier right.

Who was that awful woman who did a documentary a couple of years ago about how chavs were better than everyone else and deserved respect just because they were chavs....

The nulabour and the human rights act have a lot to answer for though.

[flip_flop]

That was the truly awful Julie Burchill.

[Quinlad]

I believe he meant her specifically.

[Barmaid]

Was it just me or did anyone else notice how much Karen Matthews resembled Waynetta (Kathy Burke) from the Harry Enfield TV series a few years back?

[B00]

The government need to look into making the benefit system back into what it used to be...a benefit for you whilst you were looking for work. Too many people now see our benefit system as a way of living and see no reason to get a job when this pays so well. Having subsequent children nowadays seems to be a way of milking the system even more, and Karen and her ilk now see children as a 'wage'.

[Quinlad]

A woman who had her own child kidnapped and drugged while she cried crocodile tears and accepted donations from people who could barely afford to rub two pennies together now seems to have become representative of every single mum who claims benefits and wears tracksuits.

Great work.

[daffy654]

Nice to see someone trying to keep snobbery alive flip_flop.

[LoftyLottie]

How true, BOO. Well said.

[flip_flop]

If being utterly sick and tired of f e ckless wastrels poncing off the state by knocking out kids every five minutes with a succession of absent fathers makes me a snob, then I am proud to be a snob.

[RevFunk]

Totally agree with him

If you are on benefits and u are not a mum with pre school children then I think everyone should have to do 2 days a week in the community

[anotheoldgit]

I think Boo has covered this excellent, a very good post.

The ever increasing liberal minded society that we now have, seems to encourage this way of life ie. (I should be able to do anything I like etc.etc). regardless of how it effects other people. Because of this we have now bred a sub-culture.

What is the answer? Well I think a good start would be to limit child allowances to the first 2 children, and to make Local councils and Housing associations more responsible for their tenants, for example monthly checks on the state of their living conditions etc.

[bianca43]

in response to anotheroldgit I don't think it's the councils ' responsibility to check on how people live. It certainly shows up Social services again though when this child (Shannon) was put forward as an 'at risk' and yet again they let a vulnerable child down. How many more children have to suffer in this way before the Social Services get their act together?

[LoftyLottie]

You can't blame Social Services. Yes they have their faults and mistakes , but do we ever hear about the good things Social Services do - I think not, it's not headline material.

The blame lies solely on the parents. The problem is more and more parents blame everybody else except themselves these days.

Actually, AOG, I think your idea about child benefit is really good. Do you get more tax credits if you have more children?

[daffy654]

Of course you get more child tax credits the more children you have (up to a � limit).Are you about to suggest that they cut that too? If so then that would make even more parents decide that working was a waste of time as they would be better off not working.

[anotheoldgit]

in response to anotheroldgit I don't think it's the councils ' responsibility to check on how people live. It certainly shows up Social services again though

Who do you think is responsible for social services?

Along with Education, Social Services take up the largest parts of our Council Taxes.

Council inspectors would not only be able to check that their housing stocks were being looked after, but at the same time help out social services by highlighting potential risks to children.

[daffy654]

That would mean an increase in Council Tax to pay wages of the inspectors,and to train them to spot signs of child neglect or abuse.

[youngmafbog]

It is quite simple.

For a start there is no snobbery here as suggested, I know many working class people who depise scum like this.

Gordon has chose working class credits as the vehicle (crap though it is) to deliver to working people so use this to reward.

Those who work should get a benefit related to the amoutn they put in. The lowest amount clearly should be enough to sustain you, this does not include TV's video,DVD, fags, boooze etc. Benefiits should be paid in tokens/vouchers so it cannot be spent on rubbish. I am sure a deal could be met with retailers for this. You should not be rewarded for sprogging but for effort and working..

The HRA and this lefty Government have alot to answer for.

[LoftyLottie]

daffy, I am fundamentally against child tax credits, and yes if they were limited to the first two children I think it would be better.

But then I am fundamentally against encouraging the mothers of young children to go back into work and giving them money towards childcare. We should be encouraging and helping mothers with young children to stay at home.

Sorry, it's the way I feel.

[anotheoldgit]

then that would make even more parents decide that working was a waste of time as they would be better off not working

Only if one was given the choice, what is wrong with the goverment withdrawing their benefits if they do not work.

If this seems a little draconian then what about making them take the job offered and if it is paying less than they receive on benefits, the state could top it up with benefits, so they got the same?

At least this way they would get them into the habit of working, doing jobs that need doing, and not be such a drain on benefit's cash.

[daffy654]

If the benefits were withdrawn for refusing work then many of the particular type of parent like Karen Matthews would possibly do harm to their children or neglect or even abandon them. I am not trying to say that her and others like her should be allowed to sponge off the state indefinitely but there has to be a balance.There are many mothers and fathers who through no fault of their own have become unemployed and may have difficulty getting back into employment,should we just let them and their children starve? I agree that all benefit claimants such as Karen Matthews(and her ilk) should do some form of work for teir benefits,but it shouldn't just be stopped outright!

youngmafbog................being working class doesn't mean you can't also be a snob.