Was I being insensitive?

[anotheoldgit]

A few days ago I entered into a discussion entitled
Faith & Hope conjoined twins..

Regrettably I was incorrectly accused of being insensitive.

I would now like to address all those who accused me and ask them if they have noticed the 'Mail on Sunday' logo in the corner of the photograph of the twins?

Could it be that the couple have sold the rights of this photograph and my have also employed the likes of Max Clifford to act as their agent to sell their story?

Now this is what I call insensitive, but not on my part.

[Octavius]

I don't see any correlation between this and the original post.

What is your point?

[sqad617]

Sorry AOG bt can't remember your thread, would you be so kind as to remind me.

[Octavius]

Summink along the lines of�. [to 18 year old gravida] You should get rid of those unborn foetuses because they are conjoined and will probably lead a short and troubled life, but cheer up love you�re only 18, you can have plenty more sprogs.

In a nutshell, some found it insensitive and others thought it would probably have been the right thing to do, but wouldn�t have quite put it like that.

[sqad617]

LOL LOL LOL thanks Octavius and I like your precis. However I have to agree with AOG.

[LoftyLottie]

Well, as one of those involved, I agree with Octavius first post on this thread.

[Octavius]

I wasn�t involved but I agree with Lofty.

[LoftyLottie]

:o)

[youngmafbog]

No AOG you are quite right in the first place.

This has soaked money from the NHS that could have been better used.

This is the problem with something like the NHS, it is abused by peoples selfish wants. Distrewssing though it is they should not have continued. Apart from the cost what about the poor child they have bought into this world. will it live long and if so what is the suffering. You would not be allowed to do this to an animal.

[sqad617]

younmafbog....2points.

1) you cannot force a person to have an abortion.
2) very unlikely that the remainig twin will survive

But, yes, I agree with your feelings.

[jake-the-peg]

Which specific better uses have you in mind YFB?

Cardiac surgery for overweight businessmen?
Liver transplants for heavy drinkers?
Chemotherapy to treat the cancer of smokers?

When you start judging people's right to healthcare just because you want a smaller tax burden it starts to unravel.

That's why doctors don't make decisions like this.

[LoftyLottie]

Well hopefully when you are ill and need NHS help, then I hope you will consider very seriously whether you are only using it for your 'own selfish wants' and if you are then I presume you will not abuse the system and will remain untreated so that someone who needs it more than you can benefit.

[sqad617]

jake-the peg

That is just the point......NHS does not have a bottomless pit of money filled at regular intervals by the tax payer.........decisions DO have to be made. Patient rationing will always bw a part of the NHS.

[Octavius]

Are you saying, YFB that every woman should therefore consider the economic forces and follies of the NHS in deliberation of their decision to have an abortion?

[LoftyLottie]

Exactly. When you need help from the NHS the last thing you are thinking of is whether you are abusing the system or the economic implications.

[flip_flop]

To balance Jake's post;

1. Cardiac surgery for an otherwise healthy mother.
2. Liver transplant for a diseased liver not as a result of boozing.
3. Chemotherapy for a child with leukemia (saved my younger sister).

[Lucy-Thomas]

AOG. What you said was your opinion. If other people don't agree then that's up to them.

I've always believed in telling like it is and if others don't like my opinion then they can either challenge it in an intelligent way or ignore it.

Don't let other people stifle your right to an opinion.

[jake-the-peg]

My point is that we treat people on the NHS based on their NEED

We don't set ourselves up to make moral judgements as to who deserves it more than others.

We don't say that that pedestrian was drunk when they were hit by a car so they go further down the list

We don't say that person didn't smoke so their cancer gets priority over the smoker

And we certainly don't say that girl refused a termination so her children don't get as much care as others.

My nephew was one of the most premature surving twins ever to survive in this country. His brother is severly mentally handicapped he is not.

Your logic rather sounds as if my sister should have saved the NHS money and had a termination to push others up the waiting list.

Or have I got you wrong?

[cazzz1975]

well this greedy society spends all its time b!tching if anyone gets something that they have not got. debating about how ill a person is to "deserve" help sums it up in my opinion.

[sqad617]

Jake
"We don't set ourselves up to make moral judgements as to who deserves it more than others."

By "we" you mean the electorate I assume. Well someone has to, because there is not enough money to go round. The Politicians say this is your health budget, the Medical profession say it is not enough and the Poiliticians reply "tough". The government has set up N.I.C.E a committee with a budget restriction to sort out who gets cancer trreatment and with what and they have come under attack from the public.
Oh! and by the way a political slogan which disappeared some 8yrs ago was NHS, ENVY OF THE WORLD...not used any more...I wonder why?
Patients expectations, fuelled by political sound bite, is such that cannot be met by the NHS.

[LoftyLottie]

Patients expectations are that they get treatment when they need it, regardless of their circumstances, whether they are fat or thin, smoke or do not, decide not to abort children who may or not have a chance of survival. This is what the NHS is about. Is this such a terrible thing to expect. If the NHS has changed its whole philosophy well why not be honest, scrap the NHS and make us all go private.

I agree 100% with Cazzz. I also think that it is those that think about financial implications when people need treatment that are the greedy and selfish ones. It honestly never enters my head.

I