Iraq

[FP]

Following on from the question below on 'Lack of Respect': Although I condemn the cruel killing of Ken Bigley, and feel for his family, I feel far more compassion for all the innocent people that have been killed and maimed in their own country with no ability to flee. I find it difficult to feel compassion for a man who has chosen to be in Iraq for monetary gain and who knows the risk involved. Does anyone else agree?

[FP]

Sorry, I have just read a vast amount of postings on this subject under 'Has Billy Lost It' which did not show up when I posted my question. However, I would add my support to the postings of Oneeyedvic on this, and also add that many people are now out in Iraq earning a lot of money to 'rebuild the country' and doing work which could be done by the Iraquees (spelling?)themselves who would welcome the work and the money to help rebuild their lives.

[Laura-sakura]

I feel compassion for him. Iraquees live without fear in our country. They have the same rights and priveledges as we do. Personally I have no desire whatsoever to go to that country but why should Ken Bigley be blamed for wanting to make a quick buck and settle down with his wife in Thailand? Why do our soldiers fight in Iraq? I'm sure they are not doing it out of love...think about it.

[Laura-sakura]

Sorry, Iraqis.

[bluedolphin]

I'm with fakeplastic...how can u have a minutes silence for a guy driven by mercenary ideals... he went for the money...he wasn't sent... he played his game and he lost.... ok he has a family but so do the people in Iraq who lost theirs in the bombing and invasion.... I understand the sentiment...but I do think it was overhyped by the media...in so far as they haven't shown much of the young soldiers who were sent and returned home maimed...both physically and mentally... Keep it in perspective....

[bobtheduck]

whatever your beliefs is it right to cheer the minutes silence of an innocent man? how would you feel if you were the family of the deceased and you heard that, he knew the risks but he was an innocent man with a wife and children who was butchered in the most brutal way, the very least a civilised country can do is keep their traps shut for 1 whole minute not a huge amount to ask is it?

[Philtaz]

A lot of people seem to be jumping on the 'he was only in it for the money' bandwaggon. Most don't realise he had been there for 7 years. Yes he was well paid but wasn't everyone else? As Fakeplastic says many innocent Iraqis have lost there lives but they were not actively/specifically targetted by Coalition forces. Furthermore, how many have been captured and then made to beg for their lives only to be beheaded on film for the sick pleasure of some madmen who feed on the propaganda of having such film shown on Al Jazeera?

[Philtaz]

I would also have to ask why people didn't feel this compassion(or do anything about it) when Saddam was piling his own countrymen into mass graves or gassing 4,000 Kurds in Halabja.

[FP]

I did say that I condemned the cruel killing of Mr Bigley. It was despicable and horrendous. However, such cruel killings have been taking place for years all over the world and we have never reacted in this way before. Why now - because of media hype I believe. Also if another country invaded us for their own reasons, without UN support, and created havoc, killing innocent people and flattening our homes, etc. would you welcome the fact that this country then sends in people to 'put things right' and welcome these people with open arms. Why haven't the US gone into other countries with similar leaders like Sadam? where mass genicide is happening on a regular basis - Purely because there is no incentive for them to do so and no financial gain. I don't say Ken Bigley deserved the horrible fate the happened, but I do think that a man with any regard for his family would have left Iraq very quickly when the situation there got so bad. I have a friend who's son, an ex forces guy, has joined one of the large security companies and just gone out to Iraq is order to 'pay off his mortgage'. He has left his wife and seven year old daughter to do so. As my friend says she would have accepted it when he was in the forces, but cannot accept what he has done now. It has caused a dreadful rift within the family because of his actions. I just cannot understand the massive hype for one incident out of so many in this awful, awful situation in Iraq.

[Laura-sakura]

I can see your point Fakeplastic. Anyone remember Princess Diana? People are killed in car accidents everyday. I thought it was disgraceful the media banging on about that bloody woman for such a long time afterwards.

[FP]

Thanks Laura. Yes, I felt the same as you about 'Princess' Diana. But that's another story and I daren't issue forth on that one.........

[Hippy]

I expect, if you are at all interested in Mr. Bigleys's life before his capture by a murderous gang of thugs, you may have noticed that he and his American colleagues lived in an ordinary looking house with no security measures whatsoever. Is this the actions of a man taking a gamble to attain fabulous wealth? Surely any rational person "only in it for the money" would have protected themself a bit more, and removed themself from such obvious targets for the thugs?

I expect that Mr. Bigley was working abroad, like a lot of ex-pats, for reasons of serendipity more than gain. I live and work in Newcastle upon Tyne, having been born in Manchester, lived in London, and abroad for a while. If pressed I couldn't give you a rational reason why I am here. I am quite at home here and carry out my life and work in a untroubled manner.

Yes, I know Iraq is not as calm as Newcastle, but my point is that Mr. Bigley was an ordinary man doing his job in an ordinary way, albeit in extraordinary circumstances. Question the origin of the unrest and thuggery, rather than Mr. Bigley's motives for plying his trade with dignity.

[FP]

Some people are in worn torn countries for humanitarian reasons, eg. Red Cross. This was not so in Mr Bigley's case. Should not he have put the interests of his family and young wife first and come home when things got so bad? I would rather have my husband at home and unemployed than in Iraq.

[bobtheduck]

i have to agree that the princess diana situation went way overboard, i have every sympathy for any loss of life iraqi or otherwise i just felt angered by a bunch of idiots not be able to spend a minute of their time to be quiet thats all

[FP]

sorry 'war torn'. My typing is going to bits these days!

[FP]

Yes, I totally agree bobtheduck.

[FP]

In the thread 'Has Billy Lost It' Mattiebabes has given a quote from Marilyn Manson which sums up the mediasituation with Mr Bigley. However, I would like to add just one more time that I think what has happened to Mr Bigley's case is horrendous and barbaric and would not like to be thought of as lacking in sympathy to his family.

[el duerino]

I feel equal compassion as it is horrific. I do not see the need for a media circus, or a minutes silence. If only the British public actually knew what was going on in the world around them, noone would ever talk. Or are they just being manipulated by the media. People are even told what to think these days.

[bobtheduck]

all fair points

[FP]

el duerino. Well said.

[Elfin]

The thing that enraged me about this whole thing is that the family, together with a proportion of the public and the press, actually expected the government to negotiate to free the man. Just because a man has a family, it does not make him worth any more than anyone else and certainly does not make negotiation with terrorists an acceptable course of action. Regardless of how he came to be there, he was dead from the moment he was captured. Can you imagine what would have happened if the govt had buckled under the pressure and thereby set a precedent for delivering to hostage takers? If the family HAD got their man back, how would they be able to live with themselves when a whole flood of terrorists took many more hostages and made more demands, now fully expecting them to be met? Or wouldn't they really care, as long as their one was back home safe? Harsh thoughts, but worth considering. In cases like this, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.