George Bush

[mash]

Why is it that only people outside the US seem to be able to seee what a complete fool George Bush is and how he is harming his own country?

[Clanad]

An example, please?

[Nang25]

Because some Americans dont see outside thier own country. My aunt has been and american citizen for 34 years and when I spoke to her last night she was shocked about just how unpopular her nation is. And its all to do with the United States Governments foriegn policy (and Im the first to admit Mr Blair is up to his eye balls in it). And a scary fact I read sums it all up.....65% of Americans dont even own a passport!!!!

[dorset 1954]

Have you seen Michael Moore's - Fahrenheit 9/11? I got the DVD earlier in the week, and have just watched the end of it ('cos I've been staying with relatives). I sobbed my heart out. It's harrowing. But it does go a long way to answering your question.

[worder]

mash, wait a minute. i'm inside the states and fully aware of the harm we are doing, but can i stop it? NO. we are in a horrible predicament, look at the other idiot running. i'll be dead before Kerry gets my vote. i know i'm a broken record but for 300 million people to have only 2 or 3 choices, counting Nader, it's not right. we should have 10 or more candidates. i think he got like 4 or 5 million the last time, i could be wrong. the only reason i would want Kerry to win is for the war to stop. if only his wife could disappear for the next 4 years, the woman has money but is a complete idiot. i can't stand her.

getting off the subject since Nang brings it up, how many Britons have passports? would you know? thank you dear.

[bernardo]

EITHER

Because the USA is an oppressive fascist state with rigid state control of all media and broadcasting, and brainwashing of the moronic population into thinking that Kerry is an appeaser or a pacifist, or a flip-flopper, or a tree-hugging lefty anti-Christian.

 

OR

Because Bush is a determined and trusted leader who is not afraid of putting security first, who cares about spreading democracy and liberty around the world, and who is willing to stand up to despots in places like Iraq or North Korea rather than allowing the status quo to continue unabated.

 

OR

Somewhere between the two.

 

I still haven't decide who I would hypothetically vote for, if I lived in the USA.  I have serious concerns about both candidates.   WVNBIVDB

 

P.S. Most people in the UK do have passports.  I don't think that the lack of passports among the USA population should be regarded as a matter of concern; the USA is such a large place that it is big enough for most people to go on holidays within the country.  For comparison, I have been to a dozen different countries but I have never been outside Europe.

[ezapf]

I live in the US and I do not have a passport. I need to travel many, many miles before I would need one. That does not mean I don't hear what the citizens of other countries think about America. Believe me, free speech is alive and well and the press lays it all out for everyone to see.

Mash's opinion of George W. Bush coincides with the opinion of many people in the US, but regardless of chioce for president most Americans agree to support the troops and so they may appear to quell their opinion of the commander-in-chief.

So my question for Mash is: how is Bush harming his own country? Some people here think so too, but nobody has given me an acceptable explanation

[mash]

Thank you so far, keep them coming. To answer a few things put back to me. Firstly I feel that American people can stop what is happening, if enough people stand up and shout, eventually politicians have to listen, maybe this is what needs to happen. For ezapf, I feel that GWB is harming the US because he is so inward looking and focused on such limited things. His whole campaign is about 9-11 and Iraq, why, because it�s the only thing he gets good support on (although he hasn�t managed anything good on these things either). What has he done for the economy, jobs, crime, US debt, foreign policy, the environment, world health, these are all just as important.
The US has a great position in which to shape our future world, and GWB is alienating more people and countries with each year he is in office. The US presidency demands great things, after all it�s the most powerful position in the world, does he achieve great things across the world?
Did you know that in Angola the same number of people who died in 9-11 die there every year of Malaria? Does GWB know this, or care I wonder, you don�t get any kind of feeling he does? The minute this oil sponsored president gained power he scrapped the US support of Kyoto, is that the action of a broad thinking man who cares for the world? He can have all the razzmatazz he likes in his campaign but are there not hundreds of issues we ALL have to tackle, not the one that uses family grief for votes and the other a bodged campaign based on lies, no better than Vietnam in it�s achiements����    

[Clanad]

I rather doubt that any answer will satisfy you, however, facts are difficult things to deal with, no?

Firstly, the President is tasked specifically with defending the Constitution of the US "against all enemies, foreign or domestic", hence the focus of this president on the attack of 9/11. If you think for a moment that the attack was an isolated event and wouldn't happen again in the face of inaction, I've some beach front property I'd like to sell you.

 

[Clanad]

Economy - every American got a $600 check as part of a tax reduction bill passed by this President. This was only part of the entire tax reduction package.
Jobs - the economy took a tremendous hit after 9/11, coupled with a recession that all economists now agree began in the waning months of the Clinton administration as part of the natural business cycle. Yet, at 5.4% the unemployment rate is lower than when Clinton was re-elected and that was considered almost full employment. What is it where you live?
US debt, while troubling it is a smaller part of the GNP than any previous period. Bush's plan will cut that in half in 5 to 10 years.
Foreign policy - The US still contributes more foreign aid to all countries than all other countries combined. Granted, we haven't kissed the backside of Jacques Cherac as he would like. (Do you really want to debate about the UN Food for Oil Program?)
Angola? Excatly how do you equate the deaths suffered in a vicious attack with those who die of malaria, for which the US contributes the lions share of financial relief?
Kyoto - Have you actually looked at what the agreement would have imposed on western countries without imposing the same restrictions on emerging nations, such as China. Take a good look and see what it would have cost you with very few proveable benefits.
I have to ask, if the US is such a bad place why are so many people from all over the world trying to get in?
George Bush's primary problem is that he tells you what he will do, and then does it. If you want "nuance" look no further than his opponent.

[mash]

Chill Clanad you seem very angry. You are obviously very happy with GWB so that�s great. By the way I am not having a pop at the US or its citizens merely a leader who I feel is doing the US and the world an injustice. There is more, much more to foreign policy than handing out sackfulls of money, any leader of a wealthy country can do that and make themselves feel good about it. As for 9-11 and internal security maybe, just maybe GWB gains quite a lot from the fear that has been created within the US, would he have the same support without this fear? Kyoto, well that�s toys out the pram, we are not signing up because they�re not doing it. Is this really a reason not to sign up? It is for wealthy advanced economies to lead the way and then seek to support poorer third world and developing countries as their industries grow. Just think 3% of the world�s population, 25% of the world�s greenhouse gas emissions that�s why the US needs to sign up and take a lead. The US were involved originally but GWB changed his mind after some heavy funding by a leading oil company, who�s leading policy under Bush I wonder.
No ones saying the US is a bad place, I can see why people ask to enter. Its GWB who�s all wrong not the country������..

[AngEL5942]

george w. bush is A LOT better than kerry.  Kerry Sucks. I'm from the U.S. and it's not the President's fault.  It;s Bill Clinton's fault because he knew about the terrorist attacks and didn't say anything.  I'm not saying that I like George W.Bush but at least he doesn't support gay marriage.  If Kerry becomes President, he would support gay marriage. That's nasty.  And think about kids that are being adopted.  How akward is it if a kid is asked to come over to someone's house and he says "Wait, let me go ask my dads." That's the worst thing that could ever happen to a kid.  I happen to know a little boy that got invited over to a friend's house.  His friend's parents are gay and in front of all these boys, they started to make out.

Also, you sound like people outside of the US are a lot smarter than people in the US.  You don't know how everything is in the US because you obviously live in the UK or somewhere else.  He's not a fool. 

[worder]

Hi, this is for Clanad,

what 600 check? neither did i get a credit when filing my taxes done by an experienced accountant. so there, you're wrong.

oh, and, i would have voted Bush had i voted. i'm not entirely against him, i just think we need to get out of Iraq real soon. i have a problem with any country invading another whether it's american, british, french, dutch, german, etc., sucking the blood out and expecting the natives to kow tow. the only reason we and our cohorts are in the region is for the oil. there's genocide and injustice in many parts of the world but we don't invade every place, it's the financial gain. we are extremely human and not looking out for others but for ourselves.

[Drewhound]

Worder, to answer your question 44 million Britons hold passports, that's 75% of the population. In comparison some 15 Million Americans hold one, that's about 5%.

  As an example I've been to two other countries in the last week, I've also visited the US and a great place with great people it is as well. This doesn't make Brits more intelligent than Americans, I don't need to go abroad to find idiots (we have our own supply lol) but it does mean we are less likely to have stupid things happen like banning "french fries". Some message that sends out to foreigners!

"free speech is alive and well and the press lays it all out for everyone to see." Please ezapf, tell me that's a joke

 

"Constitution of the US "against all enemies, foreign or domestic", hence the focus of this president on the attack of 9/11".  Wake up Clanad, your own 911 commission found not one piece of evidence linking Saddam hussein with 911 (a fact accepted by the Bush administration). What he did was the opposite, he pulled your best troops out of Afganistan where they WERE chasing terrorists responsible for 911 so they could attack someone who WASN'T

[Drewhound]

BTW AngEL5942, when Bush was asked about gay marriage in 1998 he said that it was a state matter and nothing to do with the federal administration. Don't you just hate these political flip-floppers?

[ianess]

Why is it that we hear nothing from Al Gore [remember him.......the guy who won the last election]......and do we wonder how history could have been without Bush?

[AngEL5942]

ianess- gore didn't win the last election.  he won the popular vote but not the electoral vote and that's what counts.  he's fron tennessee and he didn't even go there because he thought everyone there would vote for him.  he lost his own state and that's embarassing.  it's ridiculous.  it's his own fault. much love, kk

[Clanad]

Firstly, for mash... What would you suggest in lieu of "handing out sackfulls of money"? Kind words don't buy much in the way of food, medicine or other relief that the US supplies generously.

Then "heavy funding by a leading oil company", what, pray tell, is that all about? Are you suggesting that the President is capable of being bribed?

Kyoto -  The United Nations will become much more powerful under "global governance" and will use pollution taxes as a foot in the door for "taxes" to be paid directly to the U.N.Third World nations can use a Kyoto-like treaty to gain redistribution of a larger share of global wealth. This can come both from the selling of "pollution credits" to nations like the U.S., as Russia has done, and from industries these nations will gain that must flee new environmental strictures in nations like the U.S. (The world�s second biggest emitter of "greenhouse gases," China, is exempted from Kyoto pollution limits, as is another top polluter India.)

Most politicians everywhere thrill to any new pretext for imposing massive new taxes to transfer wealth from individuals and private companies to the coffers of the government and the control of politicians. Call this "greenhouse robbery." In England more than 80 percent of the enormous cost per gallon for gasoline is taxes. The Kyoto crisis policies to cope with global warming would have caused one of the biggest wealth transfers to governments in world history.

[Clanad]

For worder...Perhaps the reason you didn't get a tax refund check is because you didn't pay any taxes.

 Here's the facts...Consider first a married couple that brings in $75,000 a year in total income. That's a lot of money�enough to put a household in the fourth-highest income quintile. I've assumed that they own a home and that their itemized deductions, including mortgage interest, property taxes, and charitable contributions, totals $13,500 (a typical amount). Here's the numbers for them as childless and with two kids. Here's what their federal income tax came to in each of the last four years.


Year 2000 actual taxes
 Childless Couple $9,9959.00
 Couple with Two Kids $7,391.00
  
2001 actual tax 
 Childless couple $9,674.00
 Couple with two kids $6,879.00
 
2002 actual tax 
 Childless couple $8,788.00
 Couple with two kids $5,968.00
 
2003 actual tax 
 Childless couple $7,614.00
 Couple with two kids $4,699.00
 
Cumulative savings
 Childless couple $3,801
 Couple with two kids $4,627
 
Difference between 2000 and 2003 tax
 Childless couple $2,345
 Couple with two kids $2,692

The fact remains that Bush's cuts have reduced the amount of income tax we all pay.

Lastly, for mash... I do apologize, but you mistake bewilderment for anger.  I hear all these conspiracy theories that have no basis in facts.  Yet people continue to parrot them as though fact.  I fully realize the President Bush is not all things to all people, yet, when investigated, most accusations are much weaker than appear or totally false.  Thanks for allowing me to vent...
 

[bernardo]

Going back to the original question - it depends on what you mean by "fool" and "harming".  From the point of view of those in the anti-war position, I have been getting the impression in recent days that Kerry may be just as much of a hawk/warmonger as Bush is.  GSTQ

[~The One~]

Because people outside this country don't care wat happens to that country.