ChatterBank1 min ago
Common courtesy, political correctness and the return of Carol Thatcher
Carol Thatcher is back in the news. She was interviewed on BBC One's Andrew Marr Show over the weekend and said she has no regrets for referring to a black tennis player as a 'wolligog' (you know what I mean - don't want AB's censor to get me!).
She states "I used it in a context which wasn't actually appreciated at the time."
To a certain extent, she should be applauded for sticking to her guns, despite the obvious financial costs she has incurred (loss of earnings etc). And as she says, she's had thousands of letters of support, so she's not alone in thinking that her language shouldn't cause offence...
But what she says now raises an interesting question - exactly what circumstances would it be appropriate to refer to a black person as a wolligog?
How and where would this epithet be appropriate?
Would it be okay when there are no black people to hear it?
Is it like a tree falling over in the woods? If no black person is around to hear something offensive, then it's not offensive?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/80068 38.stm
She states "I used it in a context which wasn't actually appreciated at the time."
To a certain extent, she should be applauded for sticking to her guns, despite the obvious financial costs she has incurred (loss of earnings etc). And as she says, she's had thousands of letters of support, so she's not alone in thinking that her language shouldn't cause offence...
But what she says now raises an interesting question - exactly what circumstances would it be appropriate to refer to a black person as a wolligog?
How and where would this epithet be appropriate?
Would it be okay when there are no black people to hear it?
Is it like a tree falling over in the woods? If no black person is around to hear something offensive, then it's not offensive?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/80068 38.stm
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whifffey
I've checked my posts here and am totally at a loss as to where I may have either a) played the race card or b) exhibited chips, either shoulder-based or located elsewhere.
What you posted makes me sad because it goes to prove something that I previously thought to be false - that it's impossible to open a discussion about racism, no matter how dispassionately coached because one will be accused of playing the race card.
Do you think that it's be better not to ever raise any questions about race?
Should we only allow AOG to raise race questions?
I've checked my posts here and am totally at a loss as to where I may have either a) played the race card or b) exhibited chips, either shoulder-based or located elsewhere.
What you posted makes me sad because it goes to prove something that I previously thought to be false - that it's impossible to open a discussion about racism, no matter how dispassionately coached because one will be accused of playing the race card.
Do you think that it's be better not to ever raise any questions about race?
Should we only allow AOG to raise race questions?
To answer one of the original questions:
exactly what circumstances would it be appropriate to refer to a black person as a wolligog?
How and where would this epithet be appropriate?
I really can't say if there is some kind of equivalent for Carol Thatcher, but here's a context I can think of:
My friends and I often deliberately say extremely racist/bigoted things simply because the sheer unpleasantness of them is quite funny. It's kind of tongue-in-cheek. We do the same with just about every other kind of bigotry. And only with people who are 'in' on it.
Obviously, there's a difference because Carol Thatcher isn't a shamelessly childish student mucking around. But there might be a rough sort of equivalent.
I doubt it though.
Would it be okay when there are no black people to hear it?
Depends on the people. I'll wager there are some out there who might find it funny.
exactly what circumstances would it be appropriate to refer to a black person as a wolligog?
How and where would this epithet be appropriate?
I really can't say if there is some kind of equivalent for Carol Thatcher, but here's a context I can think of:
My friends and I often deliberately say extremely racist/bigoted things simply because the sheer unpleasantness of them is quite funny. It's kind of tongue-in-cheek. We do the same with just about every other kind of bigotry. And only with people who are 'in' on it.
Obviously, there's a difference because Carol Thatcher isn't a shamelessly childish student mucking around. But there might be a rough sort of equivalent.
I doubt it though.
Would it be okay when there are no black people to hear it?
Depends on the people. I'll wager there are some out there who might find it funny.
krom:
A very shrewd post. I for one would certainly come into the "yes" category of your final sentence and I am honest enough to admit it.
After all, what difference would it be were the subject's colour not the bone of contention? For example, how many of us would admit(or not) to laughing at jokes about (in no particular order): The Irish, Scots, French, Americans, Welsh, English, disabled, disfigured, retarded, religious leaders/adherents, Muslims, Jews, Protestants, Catholics, old, young, male, female, sexual preference and so on, and so on ad nauseum.
Racism, unless blatantly obvious, can often be merely imagined by someone who chooses to be offended by careless or ill-chosen words or actions of others.
A very shrewd post. I for one would certainly come into the "yes" category of your final sentence and I am honest enough to admit it.
After all, what difference would it be were the subject's colour not the bone of contention? For example, how many of us would admit(or not) to laughing at jokes about (in no particular order): The Irish, Scots, French, Americans, Welsh, English, disabled, disfigured, retarded, religious leaders/adherents, Muslims, Jews, Protestants, Catholics, old, young, male, female, sexual preference and so on, and so on ad nauseum.
Racism, unless blatantly obvious, can often be merely imagined by someone who chooses to be offended by careless or ill-chosen words or actions of others.
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