ChatterBank0 min ago
Electoral reform
34 Answers
As part of the reforms to Government should we make it a legal requirement for any party standing for election for the UK government to allow membership of their party to any UK citizen?
No elected official that discriminates against any section of his electorate can possibly represent that section and so should be barred from standing.
No elected official that discriminates against any section of his electorate can possibly represent that section and so should be barred from standing.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/08 /bnp-racist-membership-policy
"indigenous British ethnic groups deriving from the class of 'Indigenous Caucasian'".
They're not employed. I guess the descrimination laws relate to employment.
Griffin already has a conviction for distributing material likely to incite racial hatred
"indigenous British ethnic groups deriving from the class of 'Indigenous Caucasian'".
They're not employed. I guess the descrimination laws relate to employment.
Griffin already has a conviction for distributing material likely to incite racial hatred
Surely not just employment - a golf club can't have a rule that says club membership is only open to..
"indigenous British ethnic groups deriving from the class of 'Indigenous Caucasian'".
..this is what I don't understand - there should be no need for what you're proposing because they shouldn't be getting away with rules like that.
"indigenous British ethnic groups deriving from the class of 'Indigenous Caucasian'".
..this is what I don't understand - there should be no need for what you're proposing because they shouldn't be getting away with rules like that.
ludwig, I assume the rule doesn't apply in certain circumstances - for instance Catholic schools cannot be forced to admit non-Catholics.
The odd thing about the BNP is that Karen Matthews could join, the two blokes who slaughtered the two French students could join, but Sir Trevor McDonald would be barred.
You gotta love those crazy, wacky white supremacists!
The odd thing about the BNP is that Karen Matthews could join, the two blokes who slaughtered the two French students could join, but Sir Trevor McDonald would be barred.
You gotta love those crazy, wacky white supremacists!
They have their own groups
http://www.whorunsmycity.co.uk/index.php?optio n=com_content&task=view&id=51&Itemid=125
http://www.whorunsmycity.co.uk/index.php?optio n=com_content&task=view&id=51&Itemid=125
Paraffin says And which self respecting non white British citizen would even want to join the likes of the BNP?
I would ask what self respecting WHITE person would want to join the likes of the BNP?
Whilst I detest any restriction on freedom of speech as much as I detest political correctness, I think Jake has raised a very important question here. Politicians should represent the populace as a whole, and it is wrong to discriminate.
I would ask what self respecting WHITE person would want to join the likes of the BNP?
Whilst I detest any restriction on freedom of speech as much as I detest political correctness, I think Jake has raised a very important question here. Politicians should represent the populace as a whole, and it is wrong to discriminate.
Curiously, people who are not British citizens are entitled to vote in our parliamentary elections.Provided that they are on the electoral register as being resident here, any citizen of the Republic of Ireland and any Commonwealth citizen is entitled to vote.
Presumably the BNP claims exemption from anti-discrimination law , in its membership qualification ,because, ,it will say, it exists solely for the advancement or interests of a defined group. This is what permits a Welsh male-voice choir or the all-female Newnham College, Cambridge, to admit only people of the relevant sex or a Black Policemen's Association to have only non-white members (which I assume it does, since Nick Griffin cites it in his defence of BNP policy)
Presumably the BNP claims exemption from anti-discrimination law , in its membership qualification ,because, ,it will say, it exists solely for the advancement or interests of a defined group. This is what permits a Welsh male-voice choir or the all-female Newnham College, Cambridge, to admit only people of the relevant sex or a Black Policemen's Association to have only non-white members (which I assume it does, since Nick Griffin cites it in his defence of BNP policy)
Fred, Before I gave my answer, I immediately thought of the National Black Police Association, but on checking their website I discovered that membership is not restricted to any particular group, and anyone is welcome to join.
I also thought of groups like the Women's Institute, boy scouts, girl guides, and as you say, male voice choirs, but in my opinion, these groups arise from natural divisions in society and do not present the same legal or moral issues that would be presented by a goverment that not only fails to represent the whole of society, but actively demonises sections of that society.
I also thought of groups like the Women's Institute, boy scouts, girl guides, and as you say, male voice choirs, but in my opinion, these groups arise from natural divisions in society and do not present the same legal or moral issues that would be presented by a goverment that not only fails to represent the whole of society, but actively demonises sections of that society.
Skin colour is a �natural division of society� just as gender is, Naomi. And if you thought that officers in the Metropolitan Police would be allowed to set up a �National White Police Officers� Association� then think again.
However, that is not the issue here.
As I said in my earlier post, anti-discrimination legislation came about due to the will of the majority of people via Parliament. To address your earlier post, jake, it may seem incredulous to you but I do not believe that the discrimination you describe is acceptable (so long as �discrimination� is properly interpreted). But it is not what I believe that matters. It is what the majority of the people in this country want that counts. I do not believe the majority hold racist views and it is therefore unlikely that the policies of the BNP will ever be enacted.
However, it is the function of Parliament and its members to reflect the will of the people. It is not their job to simply act as lobby fodder to enable the programme set by the Executive to be passed. Sadly this is what has happened in the last twenty years or so, and it has been particularly apparent since 1997. The only sure way to eliminate this is to abolish political parties, but that is not going to happen.
If people want to see a change in anti-discrimination laws they are entitled to use the ballot box to achieve that aim. We stand at the top of a slippery slope if we begin to ban parties because some people do not like the policies they propose. The way to let them know their policies are not acceptable is not to vote for them.
But when some people do, they should not have apologies offered for their behaviour.
However, that is not the issue here.
As I said in my earlier post, anti-discrimination legislation came about due to the will of the majority of people via Parliament. To address your earlier post, jake, it may seem incredulous to you but I do not believe that the discrimination you describe is acceptable (so long as �discrimination� is properly interpreted). But it is not what I believe that matters. It is what the majority of the people in this country want that counts. I do not believe the majority hold racist views and it is therefore unlikely that the policies of the BNP will ever be enacted.
However, it is the function of Parliament and its members to reflect the will of the people. It is not their job to simply act as lobby fodder to enable the programme set by the Executive to be passed. Sadly this is what has happened in the last twenty years or so, and it has been particularly apparent since 1997. The only sure way to eliminate this is to abolish political parties, but that is not going to happen.
If people want to see a change in anti-discrimination laws they are entitled to use the ballot box to achieve that aim. We stand at the top of a slippery slope if we begin to ban parties because some people do not like the policies they propose. The way to let them know their policies are not acceptable is not to vote for them.
But when some people do, they should not have apologies offered for their behaviour.
I don't agree that skin colour is a natural division in society, New Judge. I would say that culture is the real division in society - whether that be between black and white, African and Asian, or white and white. I doubt many would object to an eminent Asian doctor living next door to them, and few would kick a Singapore Airlines hostess out of bed, but I would guess that a respectable, hardworking, white family would object to a white 'problem family' moving in next door, as would a respectable family of any hue - but in that instance, it wouldn't be racism - it would be a desire to retain a decent standard of life.
I am quite aware that white police officers would not be allowed to form a white police association, and that is also blatant discrimination - and perhaps this is where the problem really lies. People do tend to see rules on discrimination working only one way - and often, clearly, they do - and this, coupled with the undeniable fact that some areas of Britain have, in the view of the indigenous population changed, culturally, out of all recognition, is what encourages parties like the BNP to rise, and people to vote for them.
I haven't suggested the BNP be banned - I simply said that Jake has raised a very important moral issue - and he has. In fact I agree with you. Banning political parties would bring us to the top of a very slippery slope. I would hope that the electorate in general is intelligent enough to look at the lessons of history, and see through the often hidden agendas of such political organisations.
I am quite aware that white police officers would not be allowed to form a white police association, and that is also blatant discrimination - and perhaps this is where the problem really lies. People do tend to see rules on discrimination working only one way - and often, clearly, they do - and this, coupled with the undeniable fact that some areas of Britain have, in the view of the indigenous population changed, culturally, out of all recognition, is what encourages parties like the BNP to rise, and people to vote for them.
I haven't suggested the BNP be banned - I simply said that Jake has raised a very important moral issue - and he has. In fact I agree with you. Banning political parties would bring us to the top of a very slippery slope. I would hope that the electorate in general is intelligent enough to look at the lessons of history, and see through the often hidden agendas of such political organisations.
If I emigrated to Saudi Arabia where the money is plentiful and the taxes non existant I would not expect to change the laws, religions or customs to suit my ideals. If I felt strongly about these I would pack up my bags and leave.
Put into context many immigrants to Britain are not willing to abide by our rules and customs and demand equality. Our governments have bent over backwards to accommodate this causing resentment to those brought up here.
Why not a level playing field, if they are disatisfied they should go.
Put into context many immigrants to Britain are not willing to abide by our rules and customs and demand equality. Our governments have bent over backwards to accommodate this causing resentment to those brought up here.
Why not a level playing field, if they are disatisfied they should go.
Because, Rov, those who come to the UK but who do not agree with the cultures and traditions that exist are automatically in the minority, and no rules, laws or traditions which (allegedly) �offend� them can be tolerated. Thus the rules laws and traditions applicable to those who have been here for some time have to be manipulated, adjusted or overridden to accommodate minority interests.
This is what offends many people in this country. I�m not for one minute defending the BNP or its leader Nick Griffin, MEP, but he has a point when he says that those coming here are welcome, but those already here (and that includes some people not born here) do not want to see them asking to have the furniture moved around as soon as they get here.
This is what offends many people in this country. I�m not for one minute defending the BNP or its leader Nick Griffin, MEP, but he has a point when he says that those coming here are welcome, but those already here (and that includes some people not born here) do not want to see them asking to have the furniture moved around as soon as they get here.
New Judge and rov1200
Please try and validate this...
Why should I, a British born black man who pays way more into the coffers of this country than I take out (no kids, never been hospitalised, worked full time unbroken for a quarter of a century) be effectively treated as a 'resident alien'?
If someone could give me a concrete argument as to why this is fair, then I will happily shut up.
However, when I bring up the fact that the vast majority of non-immigrant Brits are hard-working, decent (even boring) people with similar outlooks to the 'natives'...everything goes terribly quiet.
So...what would my standing be in this right wing utopia?
Please try and validate this...
Why should I, a British born black man who pays way more into the coffers of this country than I take out (no kids, never been hospitalised, worked full time unbroken for a quarter of a century) be effectively treated as a 'resident alien'?
If someone could give me a concrete argument as to why this is fair, then I will happily shut up.
However, when I bring up the fact that the vast majority of non-immigrant Brits are hard-working, decent (even boring) people with similar outlooks to the 'natives'...everything goes terribly quiet.
So...what would my standing be in this right wing utopia?
Quite, sp ! Mr Griffin has what we might, politely, call 'woolly thinking'.Immigrants can't win with him.As he has it, if they come here and work they are stealing British jobs. If they come here and are not working they are spongeing off British people. But his obsession is not simply immigrants. His obsession is moslems. The Times noted him claiming that moslems were grooming white girls as young as12 for sex and making 'crack ******' of our white girls. This interest of his doesn't appear to be an economic one. It has the air of something the KKK might say about black people.
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