Vietnam War.

[zabado]

During the Vietnam war the Americans used to spray the jungle with "agent orange". This chemical was sprayed from aircraft . The next morning the trees would be bare and the Viet-con snipers could now be spotted and dealt with. So my question is, if it kills all plant life why don't the military do it now in Afghanistan over the poppy fields. It would screw up their system of selling drugs for weapons explosives and equipment, but most of all our troops would not be in as much danger by having to patrol this part of the country.( Please look up HELP for HEROES.and be proud of our young men and women.)

[Billy_Sugger]

You've obviously not heard of the Geneva convention or seen this picture

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f106/barrythegreek/girl.jpg

[zabado]

Oh ! I didn't know that road side bombs were permitted in the Geneva convention. Obviously me being British I care about our troops not them . Besides your picture does not show an air attack with agent orange .I think you will find it was Napalm.

[Billy_Sugger]

My mistake http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/227467.stm

[zabado]

Sorry Billy. But I still care more for our troops than the drug growers.

[rojash]

"Obviously me being British I care about our troops not them ."

Substitute any nationality you like for British, and you have the standard justification for any war criminal.

[VHG]

This article says Agent Orange in Vietnam was responsaible for 400,00 deaths and 500,000 children born with birth defects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange

Still think it is a good idea?

As Rojash says, your argument justifies anything in war.

[zabado]

There are very few rules in war . I am sorry for the people that have died , military or civilian but war is war .It has to be them or us . What about the rights of the civilians on the tube or the bus minding their own business and going to work when they were blown up. What about the grief of their families " my son my daughter was only going to work, nothing to do with this and yet there dead ."

[Whickerman]

actually it wasn't a 'them or us' situation - Vietnam is a case in point of the US going where they had very little business.

By your logic, all perceived enemies could be nuked. That suit?

[zabado]

We seem to have gone off the rails .. The original question was , What about the use of agent orange in the poppy fields of Afghanistan.

[ABerrant]

Exactly who are selling opium for "weapons, explosives and equipment"? Certainly not the Taliban.

The Taliban virtually eradicated all Afghan opium poppy cultivation prior to the 2001 invasion by coalition forces and the later rapid increase of production occurred in the areas of southern Afghanistan from which the Taliban were displaced. However the coalition's decision to once again attempt the eradication of poppy cultivation only penalises the rural Afghans they are meant to be supporting - in effect making enemies of those who were friends.

Dousing the area with toxic defoliant is a surefire recipe for success don't you think?

[VHG]

>What about the rights of the civilians on the tube or the bus minding their own business

Those people were killed by people who live in the UK.

What we need to do is sort out the type of people we allow in to this country, and what they are taught at their mosques.

Covering any country in Agent Orange (or any other chemical) is hardly going to stop the UK problem and protect the people on the trains and buses in the UK (in fact it will probably make it worse).

I hate what the Muslimes have done to this country as much as anybody, but cannot condone the use of Agent Orange or any other chemical warfare.

[Mr Veritas]

Agent Orange is indiscrimnate,it cannot tell the difference between Good Guy and Enemy.
There are approx 55,000 veterans in the USA still suffering from the effects of Agent Orange(in VietNam( either from dropping it,or from fighting in areas defoliated by it.
Would you reccomend this for UK troops in Afghanistan?

[123everton]

The eradication of poppy cultivation by the Taliban is something of a misnomer, they reduced it true, but they didn't stop it.
It still does nothing to justify the human rights abuses they perpetrated.
The answer is to buy crops off te farmers for the same price as the opium, then sell it back to the merchants at the olde low price. The farmer makes money to not grow drugs, the merchant makes money from selling corn etc, the people get fed with cheap local food, the infrastructure gets strengthened, the Taliban are weakened, over the course of many years greater peace brings greater peace brings greater prosperity as the Taliban's ability to prosecute a war is diminished. After a while the subsidy would be reduced and market forces would begin again.
Just a thought.

[ABerrant]

What misnomer? I wrote "...virtually eradicated..." where virtually = 'almost but not quite', and eradication is the (ongoing) programme to end cultivation.

UN drug surveys report 2001 Afghan potential opium production to be 185 tonnes, the previous year was 3,278 tonnes. I believe that this qualifies as "virtually eradicated".

2002 levels jumped back up to 3,400t and a peak of 8,200t occurred in 2007.

http://i38.tinypic.com/dddwur.png

[jake-the-peg]

I think zabado must be a member of the Taliban.

I can think of few acts that would cause such international outrage than using chemical agents irrespective of damage to insurgent or civillian and affecting children and the unborn.

If anyone in the Middle East or Afghanistan were wavering and sitting on the fence this would truely push them over.

I guess we could just organise a unilateral nuclear strike on Kabul and be done with it

They say Truth is the first Caulty of war - if that is so it looks like clear thinking cannot be far behind

[rov1200]

If we're in Afghanistan to win hearts and minds I don't think you will win many this way as some of the farmers are against the Taliban.

However the Taliban need resources to pay their recruited Army and pay for weaponry which also comes from the poppy crop.

The stalemate means we do nothing!

[Gromit]

The Taliban Tax on poppy growers is chicken feed when compared to the donations they receive from Saudi Arabian citizens who in term get their vast wealth from selling us petrol.

[anotheoldgit]

Winning hearts and minds,
Human Rights
Geneva Convention
Rules of engagement
etc, etc, etc.

Poppy cock, no declaration of war has been declared, plus the enemy that we are fighting do not wear any uniform, and the so called "friendly farmers" change sides and support whoever is winning.

It is ridiculous to use the lives of our forces, trying to play to rules and be the good guy, when the Afghans are just taking mickey out of us.

We have been there long enough now with little progress gained, we should now either withdraw immediately, or take the velvet gloves off, and use whatever resources deemed necessary and that are available to the Western military arm, and bring this disaster to a swift end.

With Iran now flexing it's muscle, it may mean that we could soon be involved in a much more serious and life threatening war, than taking on a few rabble insurgents.

Perhaps then some on this site who are forever belittling our heroes, will be grateful that there are some on hand to protect their little smug lives.It is possible that they might even find out what life is like at the sharp end, when they have to fight along side those professionals they earlier scoffed.

That is of course if they haven't already gone scuttling back to the countries of their ancestors, before they can be conscripted.

[Gromit]

AOG

Is all that before or after the 'Rivers of Blood' civil war over here?

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

No reason why it should not be around the same time, why? are you waiting to make an advance booking back to Turkey?