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Champagne Socialisnm Is Alive And Well !
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not that you need me to point it out !
and the little boy is going for a "safe" seat, ahhh bless ....well what did you expect him to do !?
not that you need me to point it out !
and the little boy is going for a "safe" seat, ahhh bless ....well what did you expect him to do !?
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Ah yes this must be a bitter pill to swallow for all those gullible persons who still believe what has been passed down through the working class generations from grandfather/father to son and daughter, that Labour/Socialism is the only way to vote for working classes, since it is that party who will care for them from cradle to the grave.
That is if there is anything left for them in the trough, after the those caring Labour leaders have had their fill.
That is if there is anything left for them in the trough, after the those caring Labour leaders have had their fill.
Good for him.
If I had made a stack of money during my career, the nicest possible thing I could think of doing, is to set up my child with a lovely new home.
AOG - I'm a Labour voter. No bitter pill for me. I think you are 100% right though.
Certain people believe that socialism is alive and well and that Britain still has a working class aligned to the Labour Party.
I think that these people may have been asleep when Britain's political landscape was forever altered in the 80s. Maybe they were napping whilst Britain's steel, coal and car manufacturing industries shrunk through foreign competition, poor management and endless strikes.
These industries were the backbone of Labour.
Not so much now (figures for membership of the TUC are shockingly small compared to the 50s.
I think what you're describing is a time long past. A time of rickets, On The Buses and That Was The Week That Was.
If I had made a stack of money during my career, the nicest possible thing I could think of doing, is to set up my child with a lovely new home.
AOG - I'm a Labour voter. No bitter pill for me. I think you are 100% right though.
Certain people believe that socialism is alive and well and that Britain still has a working class aligned to the Labour Party.
I think that these people may have been asleep when Britain's political landscape was forever altered in the 80s. Maybe they were napping whilst Britain's steel, coal and car manufacturing industries shrunk through foreign competition, poor management and endless strikes.
These industries were the backbone of Labour.
Not so much now (figures for membership of the TUC are shockingly small compared to the 50s.
I think what you're describing is a time long past. A time of rickets, On The Buses and That Was The Week That Was.
jno
/// so you're suggesting they vote instead for.... who, exactly, aog? ///
Well in this country we have never had a true choice, one is not much different from the other, as long as one is not under the delusion that they could possibly be a party where everyone is equal, that is the true meaning of communism, but that has been proven not work either.
So perhaps the only way to vote is on certain issues on their own, so if one wishes to get rid of the hackles of the EU, then vote UKIP,
if you think we can spend spend spend and still keep the country on a firm financial basis, or are all in favour of even more immigration, which is a burden on the infrastructure of this country and a drain on jobs then either vote Labour or Lib/Dems
If you wish for a party who will pull this country round, address the immigration problem, maybe give us a choice to stay in Europe or not, and put us at last on a firm and level financial footing, without expecting streets of gold then vote Tory.
/// so you're suggesting they vote instead for.... who, exactly, aog? ///
Well in this country we have never had a true choice, one is not much different from the other, as long as one is not under the delusion that they could possibly be a party where everyone is equal, that is the true meaning of communism, but that has been proven not work either.
So perhaps the only way to vote is on certain issues on their own, so if one wishes to get rid of the hackles of the EU, then vote UKIP,
if you think we can spend spend spend and still keep the country on a firm financial basis, or are all in favour of even more immigration, which is a burden on the infrastructure of this country and a drain on jobs then either vote Labour or Lib/Dems
If you wish for a party who will pull this country round, address the immigration problem, maybe give us a choice to stay in Europe or not, and put us at last on a firm and level financial footing, without expecting streets of gold then vote Tory.
Never had a true choice? What, not in the old days of 1945 and through the '50s ? Since the '80s, the two parties have headed left in the Tory case and right in Labour's. Now they are pretty much indistinguishable, to me anyway; there is no fundamental and differing political philosophy any more. It's not for nothing that my ex, a Tory candidate in a general election, answered the question "Is there anything which is or could be an embarrassment to you?" with "Yes. I find now myself to the left of Tony Blair!"
Fred.
\\\\Is there anything which is or could be an embarrassment to you?" with "Yes. I find now myself to the left of Tony Blair!"\\\
LOL....LOL.
I liked that Tony Blair fellow, he got, he got a completely electable party, elected. I don't blame him for "coining it in", he deserves it for working with Brown et Al........
As for Euan he was fortunate in having a wealthy father who went to a public School and Oxford (not a posh boy then!) and life is all about luck and taking one's chances.
Any comment from Dennis Skinner?
\\\\Is there anything which is or could be an embarrassment to you?" with "Yes. I find now myself to the left of Tony Blair!"\\\
LOL....LOL.
I liked that Tony Blair fellow, he got, he got a completely electable party, elected. I don't blame him for "coining it in", he deserves it for working with Brown et Al........
As for Euan he was fortunate in having a wealthy father who went to a public School and Oxford (not a posh boy then!) and life is all about luck and taking one's chances.
Any comment from Dennis Skinner?
Not sure what it is you complaining about here baz ? Blair is a wealthy man and wants to give his son a nice home...so what ?
I have had a look at the Wiki entry for Dave...rather aristocratic,
( a lineal descendant of King William IV apparently ) and he went to Eton. I also had a look at the Wiki entry for Cleggie, and guess what...another public school, this time Westminster College.
Nothing particularly wrong here of course. Lots of MP's have been to very good schools and I am sure that they will also send their offspring to equally good schools, as long as they can afford it.
So really not sure why you have singled out Blair ?
I have had a look at the Wiki entry for Dave...rather aristocratic,
( a lineal descendant of King William IV apparently ) and he went to Eton. I also had a look at the Wiki entry for Cleggie, and guess what...another public school, this time Westminster College.
Nothing particularly wrong here of course. Lots of MP's have been to very good schools and I am sure that they will also send their offspring to equally good schools, as long as they can afford it.
So really not sure why you have singled out Blair ?
Our whole political class seems to be dominated by public school oxbridge types, to be truthful; Labour, Tory,LibDem. Even Farage had a public school education.
Not entirely sure that Tony Blair could really be described as socialist either :)
I like Dennis Skinner, myself. Strikes me as being a decent chap, and has the courage to be true to his convictions - something that seems sadly lacking in modern day politics. You do not have to share the same political views to respect someones integrity, and that distinctive voice of conviction seems to have diminished in recent years.
Not entirely sure that Tony Blair could really be described as socialist either :)
I like Dennis Skinner, myself. Strikes me as being a decent chap, and has the courage to be true to his convictions - something that seems sadly lacking in modern day politics. You do not have to share the same political views to respect someones integrity, and that distinctive voice of conviction seems to have diminished in recent years.
Yes, but Ed Milliband passes the test. Brought up in a family, all of which could be described as working class, all with experience of life on the factory floor or down a pit or in a steelworks or the like, just as he himself was and is. Obviously a man who knows and has experienced the life and troubles of ordinary people. I forget where he now lives nor where he was brought up; some poor area of the East End, perhaps?
LG...I agree with you about Mr Skinner. Its been a long time since he was called the Beast of Bolsover, but he comes over as a very straight chap...what you see is what you get it appears..no more and no less.
I am loath to enter into this outmoded class discussion, as it never seems to get us anywhere, but Skinner could hardly be called anything other then working class and socialist, and at 43 years in the job, one of our most experienced Parliamentarian. Due for some respect I would have thought.
I am loath to enter into this outmoded class discussion, as it never seems to get us anywhere, but Skinner could hardly be called anything other then working class and socialist, and at 43 years in the job, one of our most experienced Parliamentarian. Due for some respect I would have thought.
LazyGun....fair points that you make about Skinner, but i was trying to point out a degree of hypocrisy, whereby he uses the education and upbringing of Tory opponents as often as possible in the house, not mentioning the upbringing and education of Blair.
But that is no the only point, over the years watching Skinner, when he is called to his feet by the Speaker, he makes his point in a nasty, snarling, face distorted manner which i feel is not necessary.
But that is no the only point, over the years watching Skinner, when he is called to his feet by the Speaker, he makes his point in a nasty, snarling, face distorted manner which i feel is not necessary.
At least he makes a point and isn't afraid to say exactly what he thinks unlike some of these shilly shallying politicos who when questioned just waffle on and don't actually answer the question and change their tune every five minutes depending on which way the wind ,and the electorate are blowing .
He can't help his face :)
He can't help his face :)
I think the judgement of whether you think someone is being unnecessarily nasty is coloured by how closely you support their principles; I think Skinner was forceful,acidic, no-nonsense and aggressive in the house for sure, but he is hardly alone in that, nor is that kind of behaviour solely restricted to the Labour benches. I seem to recall he used to point/jab his finger a lot, and I have never approved of that- drives me to distraction if anyone does it to me, and I remember Ken Clarke used to wag his finger rather condescendingly back in the day, which outraged me :)
Losses from the ranks of the awkward squad of maverick MPs from either end of the political spectrum is to be regretted, I think.
But I cannot lay claim to being an expert on Skinners parliamentary performances :)
And I think the claim he tries to make about privilege and elitism and being sheltered by wealth and position and family and connections and education used to be a fair one, but the force of that claim has now been much depleted since many of the Labour front bench, and the Lib Dem front bench is staffed by equally privileged and elitist individuals.
Losses from the ranks of the awkward squad of maverick MPs from either end of the political spectrum is to be regretted, I think.
But I cannot lay claim to being an expert on Skinners parliamentary performances :)
And I think the claim he tries to make about privilege and elitism and being sheltered by wealth and position and family and connections and education used to be a fair one, but the force of that claim has now been much depleted since many of the Labour front bench, and the Lib Dem front bench is staffed by equally privileged and elitist individuals.
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