Lost bargain on ebay..

[steve99]

I've won an ebay auction and the seller won't complete - can I take small claims action?

I've been watching a really nice car that has been listed on a few classic car sites at about £3.5 - 4k; it hasn't sold and I think it is only worth about £3200.

The car came up for sale on ebay with no reserve and I won, a fantastic bargain price of £2000 !
A cancellation came through after the auction finished and ebay had emailed me to say that I'd won - the seller immediately re-listed the car for £4000 with a private plate that they claim is worth about £800 alone.

I think I've really missed out on a bargain as assuming the seller's price is right on the plate the car looks to be worth the £3200 I estimated. :(

Can the seller just decide not to sell me the car after an auction with no reserve has ended? If they'd completed the sale that profit would have been mine and I'm sure they'd be pursuing me if I agreed to buy and the didn't?

What is the likelihood of a small claims action for the difference between the auction price and the current market value based on the sellers adverts and sale price of other similar cars?

[flobadob]

Email the seller and Ebay first.

[Nibble]

Raise a dispute with the Ebay resolution centre, they'll help get a resolution for you. Good Luck!

[steve99]

Thanks for the quick replies.
I've emailed the seller but their reply was fairly clear that they don't think we have a contract and they are not going to complete the sale.
eBay have been emailed but I'm not sure what they will do for me as I haven't paid yet.

This doesn't really seem fair at all. I've been watching the auction all week and bidding against people to secure it; I've won fair and square, a knock down bargain price, auctions really do work - so now were is my car?
I'm really miffed and I don't see why the seller should be allowed to back out - there isn't much point in auctions if you can't have any bargains that you win.

[The-Toff-]

In principle steve i agree with you, but if you still have your money and they still have their car, i doubt you have a case,just wait and see what eBAY come up with. good luck

[pink-kittens]

Would you have sold it for that price? Unlikely
Realistically there is nothing you can do - was it a classified ad or a private? Each of these has different eBay rules attached and you can check out the T%C's for both on eBay.

[woofgang]

I jave a feeling that cars have slightly different rules. My sis sold a car on ebay and the sale wasn't binding until the buyer had been and seen the car.

[flobadob]

Well as far as I was aware once a buyer makes a confirmed bid they are then expected to pay the price if they win the auction. Therefore the seller should be expected to sell at the price.

For example, I'm sure if the steve99 had bid £10,000 on the car and then decided not to pay at the end, the seller would be straight on the case looking for their money. The principle is the same.

[alavahalf]

As The Toff says ...'' you still have your money and they still have their car'' .. Take it as a lesson to be learned.
But get straight onto My eBay and leave ... ''Beware off scammer who wont sell at end of auction''... and on Rate you experiences ... mark each option with 1 star.
It wont get you anywhere, but it will definitely cause the seller some inconvenience.
... and if you really want to get up his nose, make sure you are the winner on his new auction .... and dont pay !
Should you decide on the latter ... do it using auction sniper,placing your bid in the last few seconds under a new eBay ID.
Then he will know what it's like to be let down ...!

[pink-kittens]

". and if you really want to get up his nose, make sure you are the winner on his new auction .... and dont pay !"

That's plain stupid as the buyer will end up with a black mark on his account as an NPB - 2 strikes and your account is looked at, which is why an NPS is the OP's best bet

[bednobs]

some advice here
http://www.theanswerb...k/Question985558.html

[clokey]

Can you put the item number up i may want to bid on a car :)

[pink-kittens]

Thye last post on that link bednobs is completely incorrect - they seller will not get 'thrown off' OP just because they didn't sell you their car, it will depend on other things as well, as listed above
The seller can refuse to sell it to you, you cannot force them to send it or let you have it for the price you bought it - this is why eBay have NPS etc in place
Cars come under different rules and and I said earlier, check those rules out on eBay under the the T&C's

[boxtops]

You say you've emailed eBay, steve - have you actually done it through the Resolution Centre? I think eBay will be interested in this one, they don't want the sellers not abiding by the rules. The only thing I can think is that the seller might have put a reserve on it (starting at a lower price) but in the past if I've bid on something with a reserve (which isn't always obvious when you bid) then you get a message telling you that your bid isn't high enough. I wouldn't leave bad feedback yet, not until you've got to the bottom of this. It sounds very odd.

[steve99]

Thanks for all your replies.

I've read through the ebay rules for the motors section and see that there are different rules, but these different rules don't appear to apply in my case.
As I understand it when you "buy" from a classified advert in the motors section of ebay (or the property section) you are not entering into a binding contract and either party can change their mind.
I wasn't buying from a classified advert and hence this special non-binding rule doesn't appear to apply, in my case it was a no reserve action and I can't see anything to say it shouldn't be binding.
Can anyone point me to a link showing why I don't have a binding legally enforceable contract?


The car is actually worth the price I mentioned, and yes I think I could have quite easily sold it for that - its a classic car in extremely good condition with some high quality aftermarket extras.
The likely reason it didn't sell for a good price is that it was listed on ebay rather than somewhere that enthusiasts were likely to be looking - the owners club would have been a better choice.


My view on this is that a reasonable person taking part in a no reserve auction would expect to receive the goods if they won the auction, and would have committed themselves to paying the winning bid for those goods.
Likewise a reasonable person selling at a no reserve auction would be entering into an agreement to sell for the winning bid, and to supply the goods to whoever won.

Given the above I would have expected that a contract had been formed when the auction ended and I could now pursue the seller (if I wanted to) for the difference between the market value (provided I could demonstrate what that was) and the winning bid. Is this correct? If not, can you tell me why I'm wrong so I know for next time.

Thanks

[society]

You should still complain to eBay.

[steve99]

Sorry - answer the question about the resolution centre; there was a case opened - the seller opened the case saying they wanted to "cancel", I didn't accept and ebay immediately closed the case saying a finished auction couldn't be "cancelled" without my agreement.

I have emailed ebay from the resolution centre but haven't had a reply. I'm not sure what ebay will be able to do for me though (they could mark the seller's account, but that doesn't solve my breach of contract).

[pink-kittens]

Unfortunately Steve, it doesn't work like that on eBay - it should be doesn't - as you have discovered
To form the contract as far as eBay goes, you would have needed to pay for the car

All you can do now is put it down to experience and move on

[Nibble]

Hi Steve, I think you are doing the right thing as far as eBay is concerned - IMO they do get back to you - but motors is a section I'm not familiar with so I wouldn't want to give you wrong info. Is this guy getting good feedback off others? I don't understand why the rules are different for motors - in the general section, once someone has won something, you can only cancel the deal by mutual agreement.

[boxtops]

Sorry to be confusing ^^ that last post is me not Nibble, forgot to log out ;-)

[steve99]

Thanks for your replies.
I don't want to be seen as argumentative because I really do want your advice - but can anyone let me know why it doesn't work that way on ebay? I'd like to understand the reason and am struggling to find it in clear language on the ebay site.


The resolution centre has replied and I understand from them that the seller should have completed the sale, and that ebay are taking action - but they can't tell me what action for privacy reasons.


I have found something in the user agreement (http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/user-a
greement.html)
that says "For certain categories, particularly motors vehicles and real estate, or bid or offer is a non-binding transaction representing a buyer’s serious expression of interest in buying the seller’s item and does not create a contract for sale between the buyer and the seller."

Ignoring that there appears to be a typo in the text above this doesn't agree with the policies page about non-binding bids (http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/non-bi
nding-bid.html)
which appears to imply that only classified listings in the motors section are non-binding.
"Certain eBay listings involve non-binding bids, such as items listed in Property and eBay Motors classified listings"


It seems odd to sanction the seller for not completing, and at the same time to also have a rule that the seller need not complete.
Likewise it seems strange to have closed the seller's cancellation request informing them they couldn't cancel the sale without my permission, if in-fact they could.