ChatterBank1 min ago
Why another shooting?
95 Answers
http://tinyurl.com/645367t
Yet another savage crime in London, this time a young Asian child was one of the victims.
Why? one asks, well it would seem from the report that some black youths had most likely been refused booze from the Asian shopkeeper, a row ensued and one returned with a gun, shooting both the shopkeeper and the girl.
I suppose I once again will be accused of racism for daring to enter this news story, which this time is not taken from the Daily Mail, but it is time we were able to conduct a normal debate and address the issues.
The related article written by the chief reporter of The Daily Telegraph although dated 26/06/10 addresses the problem of violent inner city black crime, and opens up a whole can of worms on what is a very sensitive issue.
http://tinyurl.com/26ec5gl
Yet another savage crime in London, this time a young Asian child was one of the victims.
Why? one asks, well it would seem from the report that some black youths had most likely been refused booze from the Asian shopkeeper, a row ensued and one returned with a gun, shooting both the shopkeeper and the girl.
I suppose I once again will be accused of racism for daring to enter this news story, which this time is not taken from the Daily Mail, but it is time we were able to conduct a normal debate and address the issues.
The related article written by the chief reporter of The Daily Telegraph although dated 26/06/10 addresses the problem of violent inner city black crime, and opens up a whole can of worms on what is a very sensitive issue.
http://tinyurl.com/26ec5gl
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so the colour of their skin made them do it did it? Nothing to do with the socio-economic attributes that may have affected their upbringing?
These are kids from rough estates whose sole aim is to appear tougher than their peers because that's the only way they feel they will attain any respect. It's a nasty spiral where one will try and outdo the other to be the scariest, toughest and most dangerous, that's the mindest of such youths.
The fact is, due to many factors, the majority of immigrant families came over into the lower end of the working class bracket, largely unskilled and uneducated, so generations on, they have stayed there, therefore many urban areas, these rough areas, are populated by non-whites. This does not mean it's their skin colour that is the influencing factor in this and many other assaults!
You will be accused of racism if you see an action completed by a black person and focus your attention on the fact that he is black.. they were also male, they were young, they were working class, they were unemployed, but you focus on the colour of their skin, in my opinion, is why some people may suggest you're being racist.
These are kids from rough estates whose sole aim is to appear tougher than their peers because that's the only way they feel they will attain any respect. It's a nasty spiral where one will try and outdo the other to be the scariest, toughest and most dangerous, that's the mindest of such youths.
The fact is, due to many factors, the majority of immigrant families came over into the lower end of the working class bracket, largely unskilled and uneducated, so generations on, they have stayed there, therefore many urban areas, these rough areas, are populated by non-whites. This does not mean it's their skin colour that is the influencing factor in this and many other assaults!
You will be accused of racism if you see an action completed by a black person and focus your attention on the fact that he is black.. they were also male, they were young, they were working class, they were unemployed, but you focus on the colour of their skin, in my opinion, is why some people may suggest you're being racist.
The article helpfully linked to answers the question
i.e. why another shooting?
<<the majority of men held responsible by police for gun crimes, robberies and street crimes are black.
Black men are also disproportionately the victims of violent crime in the capital.
One prominent black politician said that the black community needed to face up to major challenges. >>
There we go.
Next question.
i.e. why another shooting?
<<the majority of men held responsible by police for gun crimes, robberies and street crimes are black.
Black men are also disproportionately the victims of violent crime in the capital.
One prominent black politician said that the black community needed to face up to major challenges. >>
There we go.
Next question.
i think they do David, just not (one would hope) on the grounds of skin colour, moreso the way they're acting.. this group (unemployed, inner city youths) have other things in common that make them stand out also, in the same way that where I live, where there are very few ethnic minority groups, you have an idea of who the trouble makers are.
Oh come on now pa___ul3 like it or not their skin colour does come into the equation.
One cannot include whites, when the perpetrators of these crimes happen to be black.
On cannot keep using the social -economic attributes (as you put it) as an excuse for committing these crimes, there are many who live in these same conditions, but gun crime of this magnitude is not a problem.
Also it is no excuse to state that these are "kids from rough estates whose sole aim is to appear tougher than their peers because that's the only way they feel they will attain any respect" (your words).
Why do some black kids think it is their soul right to attain respect? I have news for them, committing the atrocities that they do, will never gain them respect.
Incidentally do you also consider the author of the second link a racist, for highlighting the true facts?
One cannot include whites, when the perpetrators of these crimes happen to be black.
On cannot keep using the social -economic attributes (as you put it) as an excuse for committing these crimes, there are many who live in these same conditions, but gun crime of this magnitude is not a problem.
Also it is no excuse to state that these are "kids from rough estates whose sole aim is to appear tougher than their peers because that's the only way they feel they will attain any respect" (your words).
Why do some black kids think it is their soul right to attain respect? I have news for them, committing the atrocities that they do, will never gain them respect.
Incidentally do you also consider the author of the second link a racist, for highlighting the true facts?
pa___ul3
Unfortunately skin colour is a means of identification, a fact that works just the same on whites as it does on blacks.
As in this case it was witnessed that a black youth was responsible, so no use the police hunting down anyone who wasn't black.
This would also have been the same if the Asian that was shot, had shot the black youth and ran away, there again the police would be looking for an Asian, not a black, not a white.
So then to be fair in the equality stakes, a white youth shoots both an Asian and a black youth, no guessing that the police would then be hunting for a white youth.
Unfortunately skin colour is a means of identification, a fact that works just the same on whites as it does on blacks.
As in this case it was witnessed that a black youth was responsible, so no use the police hunting down anyone who wasn't black.
This would also have been the same if the Asian that was shot, had shot the black youth and ran away, there again the police would be looking for an Asian, not a black, not a white.
So then to be fair in the equality stakes, a white youth shoots both an Asian and a black youth, no guessing that the police would then be hunting for a white youth.
it comes into the equation simply as a desctiption of the perpetrators, nothing more! White kids do commit crimes!
Was that a deliberate pun in there "their soul right?" if it was then fair play, that was witty, but to address the point doesn't everyone strive for respect? In attaining respect, I meant from their peers. In such urban areas the kids don't respect the academics or the police etc.. they respect those who look after themselves, the ones people don't mess with, usually the dealers and the hardmen.
Having read the second post, I don't think the statistics given are particularly valid. Given that the vast majority of these crimes are committed in the inner city estates, the ethnicity percentages of these areas should be considered, I think you would see a much closer correlation.
I never said this was an excuse for committing these crimes, but it's the primary reason, not, as you seem to want to imply, the colour of their skin!
Are you suggesting, then, that black people are biologically predisposed to be more brutal, more violent than white people?
Was that a deliberate pun in there "their soul right?" if it was then fair play, that was witty, but to address the point doesn't everyone strive for respect? In attaining respect, I meant from their peers. In such urban areas the kids don't respect the academics or the police etc.. they respect those who look after themselves, the ones people don't mess with, usually the dealers and the hardmen.
Having read the second post, I don't think the statistics given are particularly valid. Given that the vast majority of these crimes are committed in the inner city estates, the ethnicity percentages of these areas should be considered, I think you would see a much closer correlation.
I never said this was an excuse for committing these crimes, but it's the primary reason, not, as you seem to want to imply, the colour of their skin!
Are you suggesting, then, that black people are biologically predisposed to be more brutal, more violent than white people?
/// Are you suggesting, then, that black people are biologically predisposed to be more brutal, more violent than white people? ///
Now I am not going to be drawn into this trap, much to the disappointment of 'Anti-AOG Brigade', who are now waving their anti-racist's banners I am sure.
Perhaps you should enter this as a AB question, then we can all see others response to your query.
Failing that I am sure there are many books on anthropology that will perhaps provide the answers?
Now I am not going to be drawn into this trap, much to the disappointment of 'Anti-AOG Brigade', who are now waving their anti-racist's banners I am sure.
Perhaps you should enter this as a AB question, then we can all see others response to your query.
Failing that I am sure there are many books on anthropology that will perhaps provide the answers?
Probably not as the afro caribbean communities with their well documented social issues and jamaican inspired gangster culture would not be here.
However, these are issues that have little effect on most Londoners and even less effect outside the capital even in cities with significant afro caribbean communities.
In the overall scheme of things it is never likely to be as big an issue as islamic fundamentalism could be and given the right kind of support the afro caribbean communities should be able to sort out their own problems.
This is why education and employment initiatives targeted at that community are so important.
For example, an ethnic only internship scheme hotly debated here recently
Also, if history were rewritten, where would our NHS and other services be without a-c input over the past 50 years?
However, these are issues that have little effect on most Londoners and even less effect outside the capital even in cities with significant afro caribbean communities.
In the overall scheme of things it is never likely to be as big an issue as islamic fundamentalism could be and given the right kind of support the afro caribbean communities should be able to sort out their own problems.
This is why education and employment initiatives targeted at that community are so important.
For example, an ethnic only internship scheme hotly debated here recently
Also, if history were rewritten, where would our NHS and other services be without a-c input over the past 50 years?
andy-hughes
You know perfectly well that steve5 was referring not to the child or the Asian shop keeper but themselves (black on black crime)
I am surprised you would use these tactics when the very thing that alienated you against me was a similar reference
/// It is human nature to take a second look at anyone who has any kind of physical difference - and the apex of that reaction is the reaction of violence towards anyone we see who is 'different' from us.///
/// So would that also be an excuse for a racial attack Andy? ///
You cannot accuse me of taking things out of context, (which I wasn't I was only asking a question based on your own words).when you seem fit to do likewise.
You know perfectly well that steve5 was referring not to the child or the Asian shop keeper but themselves (black on black crime)
I am surprised you would use these tactics when the very thing that alienated you against me was a similar reference
/// It is human nature to take a second look at anyone who has any kind of physical difference - and the apex of that reaction is the reaction of violence towards anyone we see who is 'different' from us.///
/// So would that also be an excuse for a racial attack Andy? ///
You cannot accuse me of taking things out of context, (which I wasn't I was only asking a question based on your own words).when you seem fit to do likewise.
I do not for one minute believe that black people are pre-disposed towards violence simply because they are black.
However, as the majority of posters on here are fully aware - and the minority stubbornly refuse to accept - this is an issue of far greater complexity than mere skin colour.
What exists among disaffected black and Asian youths in this country is a society already hard-wired to view them with an element of hostility, fanned at regular invervals by a mob-baiting right-wing press, and the contstant mis-information fed to us as a populace by politicains and media alike regarding the 'expansion' of Islamic believers (how long before that observation gets shot down!!!), and the notion that black youths aspire to guns and gangs.
The simple fact is that the inherent hostilty of whites towards blacks and Asians, where nowhere near as bad as it was a generation ago, still has its roots firmly in the areas where lower-income families live in inner city areas, such as the one where this tragedy was committed.
Add into that mix a sub-culture of mutual dislike between black and Asian youths, and a serious over-compensation in the concept of 'respect' - enhanced by gun and knife carrying and use - and you have all the ingredients for this stype of situation to perpetuate.
Please understand, i am talking in vedry broad brushstrokes here - the issues are far too deep and complex to declaim on a site like this - but the situation has arisen for the reasons i have outlined.
Yes it is a minority situation - but it only needs for one person to be shot for this to be a situation that needs to be addressed by our government, and soon.
Perhaps a little less of the gung-ho approach to the wholesale shooting foreigners by our armed forces may encourage young people to believe that guns are not necessarily the answer?
However, as the majority of posters on here are fully aware - and the minority stubbornly refuse to accept - this is an issue of far greater complexity than mere skin colour.
What exists among disaffected black and Asian youths in this country is a society already hard-wired to view them with an element of hostility, fanned at regular invervals by a mob-baiting right-wing press, and the contstant mis-information fed to us as a populace by politicains and media alike regarding the 'expansion' of Islamic believers (how long before that observation gets shot down!!!), and the notion that black youths aspire to guns and gangs.
The simple fact is that the inherent hostilty of whites towards blacks and Asians, where nowhere near as bad as it was a generation ago, still has its roots firmly in the areas where lower-income families live in inner city areas, such as the one where this tragedy was committed.
Add into that mix a sub-culture of mutual dislike between black and Asian youths, and a serious over-compensation in the concept of 'respect' - enhanced by gun and knife carrying and use - and you have all the ingredients for this stype of situation to perpetuate.
Please understand, i am talking in vedry broad brushstrokes here - the issues are far too deep and complex to declaim on a site like this - but the situation has arisen for the reasons i have outlined.
Yes it is a minority situation - but it only needs for one person to be shot for this to be a situation that needs to be addressed by our government, and soon.
Perhaps a little less of the gung-ho approach to the wholesale shooting foreigners by our armed forces may encourage young people to believe that guns are not necessarily the answer?
