Listener 4201, Translation by Sabre

[upsetter]

Have grasped the theme but the clues seem to be extremely opaque this week (apart from the easy ones) - is anyone faring better?

[perseverer]

Got there eventually-I think. Yet another astounding grid construction but can't help thinking Sabre should try something other than knight's moves for his next Listener!

[emcee]

Late starting this as away at the weekend. A tough challenge with a couple of 'dodgy' clues - I agree with the fellow poster who wondered whether, if the setter hadn't been Sabre, some of these may not have escaped the blue pencil. I can give an interpretation of how these two clues may have been intended to be solved but I'm far from happy with them.

The endgame I didn't have too much problem with but I think the final decision I had to make may well be an important one - I'm being deliberately vague as I don't want to give anything away!

Well, we've been tried and tested over the last few weeks so I'm hoping the editors take pity on us this Friday.

emcee

[Staurologist]

Having read the preamble I thought that this was going to take me all of six nights to complete, but that turned out to be a somewhat cavalier estimate. Sabre's previous use of knight's moves (Listener 4140) was of a different type, but he has used exactly this theme before, with the same ambiguities and misprinted unches, in the Crossword Club ("Hop-Frog", issue no. 20); that puzzle also included three knight's tours (!?). This technique certainly makes for a tough challenge. It helps if you realise that his uniquely idiosyncratic clueing style includes placing very heavy burdens on small words, such as "in", "up", and "for", all of which play major parts here. And if Sabre clues "AA in BB" the answer could be "BAAB" (adverbial use of "in") or ABBA (imperative verbal use). Incidentally, I wonder if handwriting is going to play a part here again??

[jockie]

I'm about to go away for 3 weeks - no BRB alas! - and would appreciate having no more sleepless (well, nearly) nights. Would someone please put me out of my misery and divulge (or hint at) the thematic connection of the 6 entries. Staring and staring has produced insomnia. The entry will not, of course, be posted. [email protected]

[jockie]

Thanks guys. Roll on bedtime!

[tnap]

A bit slow to get started on this one. I think that I've solved all the clues correctly (although like others, I'm not sure about the end of 4D); discovered the theme; and then completed all the knight's moves in what seems to be the only way possible to give a single misprint in every answer.

However, I can only find 5 out of the 6 theme words. I'm guessing from others' comments that I'm not alone. Is it really that obscure?

[upsetter]

The 6th Knight is not only obscure, it ought to be entered in a way that creates an exception to the knight's move rule.

[Alekhine]

I really enjoyed this ... quite a battle ... but, with a monicker like mine, there was only ever going to be one winner. Nice try, Sabre, but us hypermodernists take such things in our stride.

Some of the clues were 'educational', I thought. And I have no problem with the six thematic entries having come across most of them before.

Some days you're just lucky, I guess.

[Coalminers]

I'm afraid I think some of the comments here are giving a bit too much away.

[tnap]

Thanks upsetter. Now I'm really confused...

[word_cross]

Just checking in - sorting out the knights moves was a toughie!

Annoyed about the lower case requirement on 4198, especially given the 'initially' instruction in the preamble. Not very fair I don't think...

[turast]

I've only just put my solution in the post, with some trepidation, I have to say after recent experiences with 4198 and EV 1027's VOLC. I've reconsidered my assertions about the definition in the current puzzle's 29 Dn, in the light of a robust earlier post made by Scorpius, and I think, on the whole he's probably right if you take each clue as a "stand alone" thing. Sabre's clue is only really defensible if you take into consideration crossing letters, in which case there is little doubt as to the correct solution.

[contendo]

Well, no gold medal for me this week. I'm flummoxed by 11ac and 6dn, with 6 letters from crossing words in the former and 7 in the latter, some of which are no doubt incorrect, resulting from knight's moves, but even using various combinations of 3 letters I can't get valid answers, and until I can get those it's no good even thinking of the knight's moves. It's been a tough few weeks.

[Cruncher]

Hobbled across the line. Oddly the wordplay to the bierkeller clue eluded me for longest. As to the final grid once you have the six thematic entries the rest pretty much sorts itself out. Aah hindsight is a wonderful thing!

[tramart]

contendo : As the clue includes "Sabre mixed up", I don't think it's giving much away to suggest you try
*[sabre][sabre][sabre][sabre][sabre]*
in Quinaplus
http://www.quinapalus...atch?pat=*&ent=Search

[tramart]

.... and limit the search to exactly 10 letters.

[contendo]

Thanks, Tramart. But that gives me 643 options, so I'm probably doing it wrong, not being familiar with Quinapulus. I normally use TEA.

[jim360]

I tried quinapalus for that clue and it's not much use. However if you use the search *.[sabre][sabre][sabre][sabre][sabre].*, min ten letters, and using all of sabre, then it cuts the number of words down to 87, including the solution. So happy hunting...

[Texasetes]

OK, I'll bite. What you really want is:
10:*(/sabre)*
which gets it down to 46 possibilities, and is the best that can be done without making other assumptions.

[Monkmonk]

Try biting with your teeth.

What you really want if the great man is confused and bottled is this:
10:*.(/sabre).*

Just 19 possibilities now.