Listener 4209 City Crossing Tour by Merlin

[AndrewG-S]

Grid fill was not too bad and I have the location name and the famous puzzle. Am in the middle of finding the various thematic elements, not sure whether I will press on tonight or have a break until tomorrow. Anyway fun so far so thanks Merlin. Have a sneaky suspicion that I will not be the first poster but have missed the thread. No doubt will be redirected!

[jim360]

Fairly sure I have a complete solution, with the expected extra element well hidden! The final continuous line has two end, which I suppose is fine without a further extra element. But all in all a good puzzle, carrying out the across instruction gives a pretty good representation of the source, and what with this being one of my early introductions to such games it's nice to see it in a Listener anyway.

[trux]

j360: did also wonder how literally "continuous" had to be interpreted but creating a "loop" would again be impossible (at least for me) ... so two-ended has to be the way to go. Am cheering up. Another dahlia came into full flower today. And we got one putt in...

[u10]

This problem has cropped up in a Listener mathematical puzzle about ten years ago.

[Alekhine]

Straightforward enough, and great fun.

But isn't there ambiguity in the 'exact' route of the final single continuous path? Yes, the requirement to pass "through each thematic object once in the direction indicated by its name" is clear enough, but surely you can get from one thematic object to another via different routes? I know these differences are not relevant to the puzzle, but surely they will make marking difficult?

[jim360]

Well there you are, I found only one possible "continuous path that does not cross" given the arrangement of the thematic objects. If there is more than one then it's a bad puzzle. We'll see.

[jim360]

Oh wait, I see what you mean. Maybe? But surely there's only the one possible start and end to the line? And that's what's important.

[Ruthrobin]

I'll be very surprised if there is a second possible route!

[perseverer]

I never cease to be impressed by John Green's willingness and ability to check 100's of answer grids every week - frequently anything but staightforward - and record all the errors to provide us with personal statistics.
In this case a tricky task to actually draw the single line once you have realised the path it should take.

[Mysterons]

It's true you could make the final path unnecessarily tortuous, but on the other hand by going for the shortest possible tour, 5 connections between objects can be made with further straight lines, and only the remaining 2 require either curves or multiple straight lines. The constraints of the puzzle (both in its original and adapted forms) mean a circuitous tour is indeed impossible.

[tilbee]

Coming back after a traditional long Sunday lunch thought I would check in before revisiting whether my original solution requires any further modification. Given that Mysterons' route seems to align with mine, then I am hopeful that nothing else is required, but I still can't stop feeling concern that the solution is not quite as thematically "clean" as I expected.

[teuchter2]

I too remembered this theme from years ago, though didn't realise it was as much as 10 years! I got the grid filled on Friday, and now have the same number of thematic elements as in the original puzzle, which we know is not possible to achieve a solution for, but if my understanding of how to get exactly the item that needs to be dealt with according to the across extras is correct, then I need a thematic item at 37a and the only seemingly possible word doesn't seem probable. Also if it were correct, then I can't get the continuous line. Am I missing something? I hope I haven't given anything away here.

[crosswhit99]

37a should be one of your 'original' thematic objects teuchter - you need to look deeper for an additional object to allow a positive resolution to the puzzle.

[tenflags]

Not surprised to see others also guessed the theme straight up which helped with the grid fill. I also looked deeper and even though I therefore think I see what might help overcome the 'impossibillity' I still haven't finally got the required line. Feeling thick so will pick up later and hope for fresh eyes and a clearer mind.

[emcee]

I finished the grid and path on Friday. I have spent the rest of the time on the thematic objects and the item identified from the extra Across letters.

It seems to me there is ALOT more to this final stage than some here are making out. In fact, if I'm interpreting it correctly (a BIG if) then there is more to the final grid than at first appears.

To some extent, there is some 'play' in how the continuous path is drawn, although only one possible sequence of thematic objects visited.

What worries me much more is whether my choice of thematic objects will be the ones intended - I have good reason to choose them.

crosswhit99 - 37a isn't one of my thematic objects and yet I still can see a case for one more than the original problem!

[crosswhit99]

Drop me a line if you need any further clarification emcee

[email protected]

[emcee]

Many thanks for your kind offer, crosswhit99. However, I submit puzzles so wouldn't feel right if I'd had any help.

Thanks again,

emcee

[emcee]

I'm finally done on this - or, rather, I've spent enough time on it and won't be looking at it again! If it's wrong, c'est la vie.

crosswhit99: Just for clarification, 37ac as it stands isn't one of my objects but part of it is. Hope that clears up what I meant - I think we're probably on the same wavelength here.

A nice puzzle with possibly some ambiguity attached. I'll be very interested to see the solution after the time I've spent on the final steps.

[JackDeCrow]

Thought this was a lovely puzzle - thanks Merlin. Just about familiar enough with the theme to realise where it was going reasonably early on, but thought the way it was represented was very neat and nicely removed any worries about other potential thematic objects. My final path is a bit of a tight squeeze in one place, but seems to meet all the criteria, so happy with that.

[olichant]

I enjoyed this, and like others, suspected the theme from the title, which the preamble seemed to support. But what a good theme. I can think of two entirely different constructions which could fairly be argued to fit the preamble one way or the other (a great deal turns on the first sentence, I should say, and also what counts as "well-known") but one particular modification seems to be the most satisfactory option, from an aesthetic point of view at least.

[jabone]

I too spotted the theme early on, having come across it before in the previous puzzle already mentioned. Nearly completed the gridfill on Friday, had all the elements by early on Saturday morning and since then much scribbling and staring at the grid. Questioning yet again whether to continue with the Listener when the end game can be very time consuming and then unsuccessful. But it has just dawned on me how to do this, so now much satisfaction. Until next time! (And to compensate for the wasted time on Saturday I did my tax return yesterday, so perhaps it is all worth it). Very clever construction, thanks Merlin.