Listener 4209 City Crossing Tour by Merlin

[AndrewG-S]

Grid fill was not too bad and I have the location name and the famous puzzle. Am in the middle of finding the various thematic elements, not sure whether I will press on tonight or have a break until tomorrow. Anyway fun so far so thanks Merlin. Have a sneaky suspicion that I will not be the first poster but have missed the thread. No doubt will be redirected!

[Cruncher]

Took me shamefully long to find the path but, excepting individual variations in the shapes of the connections, I can't see that there any alternative routes. I thought there had also been a non-mathematical version of this some while back?

[jumperjudy]

Well hooray for being able to finish the grid fill, but I'm confused about the endgame. Are we supposed to draw one line connecting the thematic objects or two? I could see an argument for doing one perpendicular to the other, but currently can't see a unique solution if that is the case.

[ArchieLeach]

I'm not sure where perpendicular comes into it. The lines on the thematic objects form part of the final (single) path. Or on other words, the lines are to be extended so that they join up with each other.

[teuchter2]

I've just come back to this after a break. Part of 37 was what I meant in my first posting, so that must be right, and I had already dug deeper, but just can't seem to get the path. I imagine the start has to be costly!

[Mysterons]

Sometimes you pay at the end teuchter

[fortyseven]

Having filled in the grid, it took me ages to see how to interpret the across instruction. After that, with the aid of a little O level topology (those were the days!), the order in which the path passes through the objects became obvious.

[BlackHugh]

Well - after a couple of days with a completed grid,
instruction carried out and a seemingly complete set of thematic elements I have filled in a "single continuous path" (and sent that in). I am not at all happy with one of the lines I have used which seems to violate the spirit of the theme - anyone else have that feeling, or have I missed something?

[IainGrace]

Shades of 4207, when we rattled through the grid then stalled at the endgame. Time enough yet, though.

[Arcticpenguin]

Blackhugh - that's exactly how I feel. My path seems very convoluted in the middle but in true Holmsian fashion "after you've ruled out all other possibilities....." Best of luck to JG marking these !!!!

[crosswhit99]

If by 'very convoluted' you mean 'two slight jinks', then you should be OK !

[jumperjudy]

Perhaps orthogonal would have been a better word AL. I was referring to the instruction to solver in the across clues.

[JackDeCrow]

The instruction from the across clues is completely separate from the preamble, jumperjudy, so in one sense you're right about two lines. If you treat the across instruction very literally, you should find there's no confusion.

[mjld]

Done across instructions but still puzzled by
(a) length of object in col 6 - 3 or 6 just a matter of taste?
(b) length/direction of object in col 8 - Chambers gives 8 chars in "wrong" direction! I prefer 4 chars in correct direction.

[jim360]

I think in both cases it has to be the longer of the two. I'm not entirely sure how you can make a word in the "wrong direction" in col 8 though...

[mjld]

Because last 4 characters in 8-letter Col 8 object suggest reversing "direction indicated by its name", but that makes tour impossible. Is that too literal/pedantic?

[jim360]

well in that case I see what you mean but I don't think that the last four letters by themselves make any sort of thematic object. So you would need all 8 characters.

[Staurologist]

Like so many others, I identified the problem from the title and the first sentence of the preamble, which made solving the down clues much easier. Unlike truculent trux (who has perhaps been mollified by the golf), this is something that I welcome. Nevertheless, I still find myself puzzlingly short of the seventh letter in the location. I like the clever realization of the feature in the location from the across message, which looks almost exactly right. And the method of making the insoluble soluble is also very clever. [The Wikipedia entry offers other entertaining ways of doing this.] As for the final pathway, in topology the lines can be straight or curved, so I would expect both to be acceptable.

There have been two previous Listeners based on this idea, one mathematical, one verbal.

By the way, in view of our recent discussions, I wonder what Ruthrobin makes of the correct letter at 5 down?

[JackDeCrow]

You'll be needing a specific poet, Staurologist - though I agree the clue works as it stands

[Texasetes]

I don't suppose that anyone cares, but doesn't the absence of a comma after the word 'once' in the preamble mean that entries which break the rules of the original puzzle can't be regarded as incorrect?

No, I'm neither a contract lawyer nor Lynne Truss ...

[Staurologist]

Many thanks, JdeC. The main problem with the clue is that nowhere in the works of the poet does the relevant word actually appear. Even if it did, the clue would need a "perhaps" at the end, since the poet is not specified in the BRB. This also underlines the importance in misprint clues of making the surface reading distinct, so that the clue cannot be solved without correcting the misprint.