Listener 4331 By Loda

[Ruthrobin]

Well, those who have been moaning that the early ones were too easy have what they wanted here. This has been a real challenge, growing easier as it progressed, of course. We still have some ends to tidy up but have enjoyed the challenge. Thank you Loda. (For a real laugh, you should look at the comment on the Listener website on the Stick Insect crossword - it seems somebody managed to get it wrong!)

[aldanna]

Not everyone did this without a bit of despair, Upsetter. Mind you, I am looking at a full grid now, with just one letter which is really a guess (yes, I know, that means I'm probably wrong).

[aldanna]

And I got the Stick Insect one wrong as well. So much for my splendid start to the year.

[Scorpius]

I thought this was a nicely constructed puzzle with a good deal of thematic material. Tougher than previous puzzles this year, but not terribly hard.I was surprised at the double unches. S_pugh refers to one example (which could have been avoided by changing one cell) but I think there are three more, unless I've overlooked a crossing answer. Three of them have very straightforward clues, so perhaps the editors raised no objection on those grounds. I thought the misprints, though not hard to spot, were often rather inventive.
I found confirming some of the titles, and one name, a bit frustrating at the end. Three titles are obscure and difficult to trace on the internet even after consulting comprehensive lists. Still, the lovely final PDM cleared up several uncertainties and exposed a wrong entry on my part.

Re comments on 4328, I cannot see anything ambiguous in the preamble, which made it perfectly clear that there was an additional instruction. I was also one who deleted the wrong rows and columns initially, but confronted by nonsense I tried the alternative, which revealed what I expected to see.

[pushmi-pullyu]

What a nice, fun puzzle, despite the hold-up of a misprinted answer length. Hard enough to be a proper challenge, but not mind-numbingly difficult either. Thank you Loda.

[EdgeofDarkness]

Jim and RR. After previous experiences on the Listener thread a few years ago, I need a lot of convincing. For example, why was my comment on 4330 deleted but Staurologist's remains ? I reserve the right to give my feedback, and will fight to maintain that right if necessary.

To the editorial staff.
The Listener is attempting to encourage wider participation (perhaps you need to justify the print space). You would do well to look again at the incentives on offer. If a solver already has a Chambers, Brewers and Thesaurus and is not the slightest bit tempted by an annual dinner party with other solvers (agreed that the setters might be more interesting to meet), what incentive is there for submitting entries ?
Meursault.

[starwalker]

Certainly a step up from previous weeks. I also share the concern about the unching, particularly at 46, but all in all a neat puzzle. Thanks Loda.

[sunny-dave]

Well that's more like it - a proper Listener challenge at last in 2015.

Hard, but never daunting - I made slow progress, but with the level of difficulty gradually easing as the grid filled.

A nice PDM and a genuine smile at the end when you see what's going on.

A tiny niggle about one of the thematic elements - but I won't say which/why to avoid any accidental hints to others.


Thanks Loda - very good indeed.

Dave

[Philoctetes]

@edgeofdarkness - I reported your post, but I do not know if I was alone. I did so because it directly stated a part of the solution as being a part of the solution. While I regularly find staurologist's postings childishly irritating in his attempts to seem clever by hiding the hints he is giving, the "surface reading" of the post in question did not state it was the answer in the way yours did (IMHO).

[borealis]

On rumbles the old debate.
When is a spoiler not a spoiler? When it’s funny?
In that case how about upsetter’s gem a few weeks ago; look at the 9th post here:
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Quizzes-and-Puzzles/Crosswords/Question1392519.html

Let us fill in a little history

8/04 Beginnings:
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Quizzes-and-Puzzles/Question56088.html

[borealis]

06 - 08 Arguments, with Quizmonkey, Listenerite et al. on one side, and Quizmonster et al. on the other. Many in between!
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Quizzes-and-Puzzles/Question240595.html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Quizzes-and-Puzzles/Crosswords/Question464390.html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Quizzes-and-Puzzles/Question493227.html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Quizzes-and-Puzzles/Crosswords/Question512030.html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Quizzes-and-Puzzles/Crosswords/Question563078.html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Quizzes-and-Puzzles/Question583101.html

9/09 Evolving, with many of the current contributors taking part, a bit more revealingly than at present.
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Quizzes-and-Puzzles/Crosswords/Question809975.html

[borealis]

So now we have two main sites - this one, and the crosswordsolver one.
Here a consensus seems to mostly agree and follow these:
Don’t put hints up here.
If you want a hint, ask, but give an email address to get it privately.
If you want to share hints/answers online, go to the other site.
.... and, if you want to play fair and submit, don’t look anywhere there might be a hint till you have posted.
Now this site has become a place where people can look and exchange thoughts before the 3-week embargo is over, without seeing any spoilers. If they want to!

Oh, nice puzzle this week......

[petefoxes]

Yes, the hardest of the year so far, but fulfilling and not impossible. I found some of the clues tough (and have a few left to parse) and titles obscure but enjoyed the logic of deciding the entries' directions, and the fun PDM. Thanks, Loda. Very impressive construction.

[EAChaplin]

Thanks for the links Borealis. I think the difference then was that postings were not arbitrarily deleted. Meursault seems to be a character quite capable of retaliating in kind.

[Staurologist]

An excellent little puzzle, with a delightfully unexpected ending, and I wasn't bored for an instant--the key to good entertainment. Parts of the theme have been used before, but not, to my recollection, the whole thing in this way.

[Ruthrobin]

Philoctetes, you were not alone, I also reported that post and have been told, since I did, that two other people, at least, did the same. It is good to know that a group of us are attempting to maintain our standards.

[EdgeofDarkness]

This is pious nonsense. A very small number of Listener solvers have for some years used an answerbank thread as a chatroom. In doing so they have put off other solvers from using answerbank. Instead those solvers use another site, where from what I see, they behave reasonably with each other, ask only specific questions and receive only specific answers.

My assistance in 4330 was prompted by a specific query being raised, by yourself, being uncertain of one of the symbols required at the end of the gridfill. I was surprised by your ignorance.

There is a simple solution to all this. Do not come onto answerbank until you have completed the puzzle.
Meursault.

[EdgeofDarkness]

If your group, some of the more experienced solvers, were truly concerned about the future of the Listener and in maintaining, even boosting solver numbers, then you should be actively participating in nurturing and encouraging new solvers. You should unconditionally assist them in whatever way they request.

Instead you do the opposite. You prohibit assistance while pursuing your own narrow interests of Friday Club, bons mots, etc. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

[jim360]

Actually plenty of new solvers get encouraged to join in the activity by AB members -- it's just that the help is given through private communications.

There seems little point in resurrecting this debate, Meursault. There are two (perhaps even three) Listener communities, and each has a different approach to discussing the puzzle: on AB we discuss live puzzles without, hopefully, giving anything away; on crosswordsolver.org some hints are given in an open forum; on crossword.org.uk you don't even discuss puzzles until the solution is released.

Each one can be thought of as a separate Listener-solving club, with its own guidelines for what you can and can't say about a current puzzle. If you are going to participate in this particular club, then you should respect its rules.

[icynorth]

This was harder, but clearly not impossible. I had to solve around 80% of the clues before I could meaningfully tackle some of the other tasks, but then they all fell into place quite easily, and I enjoyed the moment the theme became obvious. Thank you, setter!

Just one letter to go. I can't find this word or the wordplay portion of it in Chambers. I'll have to wing it...

[UglyUncle]

A late start so a late finish for me this time. There were at least three titles lacking their own hyperlinked entry in Wikipedia, which made tracking them down rather difficult. Also, although the answer to the clued 32 became obvious, I couldn't have verified the misprint without t' internet. Gone are the days when setters used only references that could reasonably be checked from standard works, whether at home or at the local library.

On the subject of spoilers, I don't look here for them and don't want to see them. More importantly, on the subject of basic courtesy, I'm disappointed to find ill-tempered dismissiveness rearing its head again, both towards other posters and towards those of us who look forward to meeting the setters and - bizarre as such behaviour evidently appears - fellow solvers too.

Alekhine took the hint. Is it too much to hope ...?