Listener No. 4380: Stomach My Mynot

[AHearer]

I didn't even think of trying to fit the entries into the grid until I had cold-solved all but six. A couple of false starts, but as usual with this sort of puzzle once a few had slotted together the rest followed without too much trouble. Tough, though. Many thanks, MynoT.

[icynorth]

A high-quality puzzle, and a nice PDM, which came to me while half-asleep this morning. Many thanks, MynoT.

The website of a certain well-known agency associated with the theme should resolve any ambiguities with the final step.

[Philoctetes]

I, too, cold-solved all but a couple (crossword?) before what turned out to be a very rapid gridfill with associated PDMs. However, I am troubled. I have an extraneous letter for the message. I will probably just shrug, and say I parsed the clue incorrectly. But it niggles. Oh, and the title

[Cruncher]

Took me a long time to tumble to the "anomalies" but thereafter it all fitted together nicely. Like others I spent a lot of time researching biblical genealogy to no avail. Glad that's sorted. Still pondering the title. Happy New Year to all

[UglyUncle]

I chose to cold-solve all but one of the clues before deciding to take the plunge. Thank goodness they weren't more difficult, although the second part of the 'grape' clue struck me as pretty lame.

At this point the instruction could be worked out without having filled the grid. It didn't help much until the anomalies became clear, but I agree with Scorpius that it was an odd way of providing essential help: the message could easily have been rendered en clair.

I'm so glad I no longer submit. I suspect that old-fashioned resolutions will be disallowed - Wiki does specifically tell us that the modern, scientific authorities disapprove of them - but if the editors weaken it will be another nail, I'm afraid. After all, it was my exasperation with the Dante's Inferno free-for-all that made me decide not to persist in entering.

[fyellin]

I have to assume that "modern" refers to the selection of anomalies and not to their resolution. When I Google "X for Ys", the result is clear.

At least I hope the setter is made aware that the instructions can be interpreted multiple ways.

[rhona121]

Such an elegant final grid fill.

[perseverer]

Just speculation but perhaps the title refers to a song, a step or two away from Stomach.

[icynorth]

I thought the title referred to a two-word phrase in that area which shares a first word with the anomalies (as described in toto).

[icynorth]

I also considered an anagram of the title, and a relevant song, but this describes only one of the anomalies

[perseverer]

Your thought may well be correct, but the song was somehow more whimsical....

[Scorpius]

UglyUncle, I understand your decision to stop submitting. I almost did the same a couple of years ago. I gather there is already concern about the declining number of entries, so The Listener can ill-afford to lose more. I agree with you about the grape clue. I thought you might also comment on the non-Ximenean god-daughter clue, which seemed nonsensical to me.

It’s a pity that an otherwise good puzzle has been spoiled by uncertainties in the endgame. I think the option advocated by UglyUncle and maybe others is probably not the intended one. My main reason is that a very similar recent puzzle by the same setter in another publication required non-alphanumeric resolutions. That’s not a logical reason, I admit, but I’ve been caught out before submitting a solution that the setter did not intend. Even then, there are ambiguities. For instance, a consistent depiction from Wikipedia does not match that of another ‘scientific’ site in several respects.

A slightly differently worded hidden message could have made it absolutely clear which of two forms of representation was required, and a preamble assurance that some latitude would be permitted would have avoided all this angst.

[icynorth]

Wikipedia is a great repository of crowd-sourced information, but a definitive peer-reviewed reference work it ain't. Is the information in Pears? I'd certainly trust that more than Wikipedia.

[jim360]

"I gather there is already concern about the declining number of entries, so The Listener can ill-afford to lose more."

I daresay we'll have to wait a couple of months to see the 2015 entry stats, although it is true that the Listener is a niche subject and could do with new blood sooner rather than later, not to mention long-term solvers sticking with it for as long as possible!

[fyellin]

@icynorth: A friend points out that Googling ". He says that no one uses Xs.

[fyellin]

Sorry. That last message got garbled. Apparently this site gets confused by my putting something in angle brackets.

A friend pointed out that she googled "ABC X of Ys" where ABC is an appropriate US government agency. The appearance of the resolution on this page is at least some indication of modernity.

On the other hand, my husband studies Ys professionally. He gets grants from ABC. He says no one would ever use the resolution.

[Philoctetes]

The instruction, to my mind, specifically demands the use of X. The modern bit helps where there are alternatives. I can understand Mr F using an easier tool in his work, but that is not an X

[towsertaylor]

Many thanks Mynot - took its time but very satisfying grid at the end. Like others I'm a tad confused on how to enter the resolutions but have plumped for one and into the envelope it goes. Might anyone advise on the etiquette of a setter joining discussions on his / her puzzle?

[perseverer]

Just being whimsical again, but does "in a modern" rather than "in the modern" indicate the possibility of alternatives?

[Scorpius]

Towsertaylor, I don't think it's wise for a setter to join in discussion of his or her puzzle before publication of the solution. Apart from other considerations, I'm sure the crossword editors would strongly disapprove, particularly in the case of The Listener.

[sunny-dave]

Blimey - that was very hard for a MynoT puzzle.

I had to cold solve all but about half a dozen clues before risking a bit of tentative grid-filling - thankfully most of my early guesses were proved to be right.

When the penny finally dropped it all speeded up considerably and the canter to the finish was a real pleasure.

I never submit these days, so arranging the requisite angels on the pinhead is fortunately not going to be a worry.

Thanks MynoT - a cracker to lighten a dark January day.