ChatterBank1 min ago
Allardyce - Entrapment?
94 Answers
As the shock waves settle on Mr Allardyce's activities, and the results, he, and several other media and football figures are talking about 'entrapment' by The Telegraph - as though he is somehow an innocent victim of skulduggery.
My view is that he would not have been 'caught' if he was behaving properly, and the public interest justifies the methods used - and he would save some dignity if he kept quiet and let everything take its course.
What do you think?
My view is that he would not have been 'caught' if he was behaving properly, and the public interest justifies the methods used - and he would save some dignity if he kept quiet and let everything take its course.
What do you think?
Answers
I have no sympathy whatsoever for Mr Allardyce. Perhaps his Houdini act saving Sunderland from relegation has gone to his big head (a club that was reeling from the Johnson affair). He states that it was his 'dream job'. Entrapment or not, a person in his privileged position has to be whiter than white and lead by example in ethics, discipline, motivation and...
13:42 Thu 29th Sep 2016
I agree, Andy. However, I have to say I find this type of journalism seedy at best. After all, the reporters are being just as dishonest as their 'victim', by pretending to be what they are not, 'encouraging' him/her to use the very words they want to hear and using a concealed camera to record it all.
A grubby procedure.
A grubby procedure.
QM - //I agree, Andy. However, I have to say I find this type of journalism seedy at best. After all, the reporters are being just as dishonest as their 'victim', by pretending to be what they are not, 'encouraging' him/her to use the very words they want to hear and using a concealed camera to record it all.
A grubby procedure. //
I concede your point, but as ummm says, you cannot be 'entrapped' unless you are doing something wrong in the first place - it is s tricky moral dilemma.
I do think that it is best for Mr Allardyce's defenders to say that for him, and for him to maintain a dignified silence. Chances are, football memories are forgiving and short - he will be back in management by next season.
A grubby procedure. //
I concede your point, but as ummm says, you cannot be 'entrapped' unless you are doing something wrong in the first place - it is s tricky moral dilemma.
I do think that it is best for Mr Allardyce's defenders to say that for him, and for him to maintain a dignified silence. Chances are, football memories are forgiving and short - he will be back in management by next season.
grumpy01 - //The whole point is that it shows his unbridled greed.Having got the job he craved, with a salary ordinary people could only dream about, he couldn't resist the offer of another £400,000.//
I pointed out on day one, that I don't believe this was about money, so much as about personal affirmation.
I think that people in such an insecure profession, who work under such pressure and analysis, need reassurance, the feeling that they are valued and appreciated, and I believe that it was that which motivated Mr Allardyce, rather than the money.
//I think this is only the tip of the iceberg though and other well known names will almost certainly follow. //
That does seem to be the case - one Assistant Manager suspended so far.
I pointed out on day one, that I don't believe this was about money, so much as about personal affirmation.
I think that people in such an insecure profession, who work under such pressure and analysis, need reassurance, the feeling that they are valued and appreciated, and I believe that it was that which motivated Mr Allardyce, rather than the money.
//I think this is only the tip of the iceberg though and other well known names will almost certainly follow. //
That does seem to be the case - one Assistant Manager suspended so far.
RandyMarsh - //So, he should not give his side of the story at all?
He should say nothing? //
Timing is everything.
Right now, Mr Allardyce has been caught with damning evidence that he has been at best naiive and foolish, and at worst, corrupt, either of which means that his job as England Manager is over.
His best course of action would be to say nothing now, disappear until the heat dies down, and then return and give one interview to a journalist he can trust to report his side accurately, and then move on.
Crying 'foul' days after he has been found out simply adds fuel to the argument that he was foolish and / or dishonest, and does nothing to salvage either his dignity, or his damaged reputation.
He should say nothing? //
Timing is everything.
Right now, Mr Allardyce has been caught with damning evidence that he has been at best naiive and foolish, and at worst, corrupt, either of which means that his job as England Manager is over.
His best course of action would be to say nothing now, disappear until the heat dies down, and then return and give one interview to a journalist he can trust to report his side accurately, and then move on.
Crying 'foul' days after he has been found out simply adds fuel to the argument that he was foolish and / or dishonest, and does nothing to salvage either his dignity, or his damaged reputation.
grumpy01 - //Sorry Andy but I think it is money pure and simple which has been his downfall.Tommy Wright is only a small fish in a big pond, there are definitely more "names" to follow. //
Fair enough - maybe Mr Allardyce will give his side, and explain his motivations, until then it is for him to know, and us to speculate.
Fair enough - maybe Mr Allardyce will give his side, and explain his motivations, until then it is for him to know, and us to speculate.
RandyMarsh - //That is more or less what he has done, he has said entrapment has won, that he was doing a favour for a mate of 30 years, that he cannot say anymore and he has gone on holiday. //
It is what he has done - but the timing is all wrong.
When you are a multi-millionaire high-profile manager and you are perceived as grubbing around in shady areas for even more money, it is not dignified to bleat about being 'set up' and infer that you are innocent and that nasty media have done you down through no fault of your own.
As I said, Mr Allardyce would have fared better had he said nothing, disappeared, and then returned with his version, but what's done is done.
In my view he is at least consistent - his bad judgement continues in full flow.
It is what he has done - but the timing is all wrong.
When you are a multi-millionaire high-profile manager and you are perceived as grubbing around in shady areas for even more money, it is not dignified to bleat about being 'set up' and infer that you are innocent and that nasty media have done you down through no fault of your own.
As I said, Mr Allardyce would have fared better had he said nothing, disappeared, and then returned with his version, but what's done is done.
In my view he is at least consistent - his bad judgement continues in full flow.
Okay, but ...
The Telegraph (frankly, a bit of a self-righteous rag) are trying to describe it as
... "investigative journalism"
But they were "investigating" corruption ... that ... hadn't ... happened !!
There had been no wrong-doing until they set it up.
So they take a man who has done nothing wrong (recently), and say ...
"Come on, come on ... please do something wrong ..."
And when that person says ...
"Oh, go on then ..."
The Telegraph say ...
"AH HAAAAA !!!"
Is that really what we want from our national Press? Or has the Telegraph just joined the ranks of the gutter Press, fabricating sensationalist stories, thinly disguised as "investigative" journalism?
The Telegraph (frankly, a bit of a self-righteous rag) are trying to describe it as
... "investigative journalism"
But they were "investigating" corruption ... that ... hadn't ... happened !!
There had been no wrong-doing until they set it up.
So they take a man who has done nothing wrong (recently), and say ...
"Come on, come on ... please do something wrong ..."
And when that person says ...
"Oh, go on then ..."
The Telegraph say ...
"AH HAAAAA !!!"
Is that really what we want from our national Press? Or has the Telegraph just joined the ranks of the gutter Press, fabricating sensationalist stories, thinly disguised as "investigative" journalism?
RandyMarsh - //why do you interpret his statement as bleating? Have you seen it? //
Yes I have, and no matter what he says, he is going to be seen as 'bleating' because right now public perception sees him as a rich man who is willing to break the rules to become richer still.
// He has not said he is innocent. // - It doesn't matter what he says now, the timing is wrong.
Yes I have, and no matter what he says, he is going to be seen as 'bleating' because right now public perception sees him as a rich man who is willing to break the rules to become richer still.
// He has not said he is innocent. // - It doesn't matter what he says now, the timing is wrong.
It depends. I don't see that reporters should have a licence to go round in disguise at random, trying to corrupt people; many will fall for it but will say they'd never have dreamed of taking money if they hadn't been offered it. That's the problem with entrapment: that the reporter isn't investigating corrupton, he's creating it.
The assumption is that they already had reason to suspect Allardyce. Maybe. I haven't seen any evidence for this.
Football managers are in a notoriously precarious job, even at national level; I'd be amazed if all of them were not at some point negotiating other work.
The assumption is that they already had reason to suspect Allardyce. Maybe. I haven't seen any evidence for this.
Football managers are in a notoriously precarious job, even at national level; I'd be amazed if all of them were not at some point negotiating other work.
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