Compassionate Leave

[CLOTHEAD]

Good Morning Answerbankers

My mother is terminally ill and my brother and I are nursing her on a daily basis.

When I first mentioned to my immediate boss about the impact workwise he said that I should be able to take Compassionate Leave. So far, as I took Annual Leave for the first couple of days, I've been absent from work only the Friday of last week, yesterday and today - as Monday was a Bank Holiday.

I think I will be up here, with her, at least until the end of this week, possibly a further week, so I emailed him and got the reply, passed on from the CEO that it would be better if I took sick leave for this absence as the situation could take some time. If I took this approach, I would need a doctor's note on Thursday and for whatever time in the future needed.

This seems outrageous to me. I'm not going to pretend to a GP that I'm sick when I'm not and one HR specialist that I spoke to told me that if I felt I had to resign to look after Mum then that was tantamount to unfair dismissal.

So you HR and Legal fellows out there - your informal advice would be most welcome. Incidentally, I work (part-time) for an organisation which is heavily involved in helping the frail, elderly and vulnerable! Ironic isn't it...?

[BagPussAA]

I was in a similar situation when my Father was taken ill with terminal cancer. I was also denied compassionate leave by my employer at the time. I went to see my GP and explained the situation and he signed me off work with stress so that I would at least be paid whilst I was caring for my Dad. Once he had passed away and the estate was settled, the first thing I did was hand in my notice. I couldnt work for such a compassionless company.

[chelle7272]

You havbe right to reasonable time off tocare for a dependant, though this would be unpaid. A sympathetic GP may sign you off with stress as mentioned above.
Some more info here:
http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=3235

[ubasses]

Sorry to hear about your Mum, I am afraid my basic employment law training is now very out of date, and one of the legal people may be along later.
Unfortunately there is no legal obigation for a Company to provide compassionate leave, although most large companies do have a policy in place. (where I worked it was 10 days p.a).
Look at your contract or employment handbook to see what Rights you have, failing that ring HR and ask them.
If you draw a blank, I should think you would be pretty stressed looking after your Mum, worrying about the time off and being paid, so I don't think you would be doing anything underhand by seeing your GP on those grounds.
If you felt so inclined also tell your employers that is was being refused the compassionate leave on top of everything else that caused the stress. You may have an effect on them for others finding themselves in the same position in the future.

[pixie374]

I am sorry about your mum x where I worked, compassionate leave was only granted, sometimes, on the death of an immediate family member. The company just couldn't afford to pay out indefinitely. I have every sympathy for you, but there may be help or benefits to look into instead.

[237SJ]

You can do two things really - ask for unpaid leave or go sick. I used up all of my banked leave when my Mum was at the end and it was only afterwards that someone said that if I had gone sick, it would have been deleted from my record because it was bereavement related. The crafty company didn`t tell me that. After she died I was stressed and went to the doctor who had no hesitation in signing me off for 2 weeks. I certainly didn`t lie to her and any doctor would be sympathetic. The 2 weeks sick was indeed scrubbed from my record. Maybe you should go with what the CEO suggests rather than some bod in HR.

[woofgang]

I have a feeling that if you take sickness absence then the company can claim a part of your sick pay back; whereas for special circumstances absence they get nothing. When I have needed special circumstances leave I have taken it as unpaid absence, the only exception was a day for my mother's actual funeral. A company doesn't have to allow you either special circumstances leave or unpaid leave and are entitled to factor it in to any absence monitoring and management that they may do. Any organisation has to consider its operating costs and if you are not there doing your work then someone has to do it.

[woofgang]

235sj, that thing about bereavement related sickness "not counting" in some way may have been your company's policy but is not, to my knowledge, universal or supported by employment law.

[Peter Pedant]

I am sorry to hear you mum is terminal
a bad time for you all

//one HR specialist that I spoke to told me that if I felt I had to resign to look after Mum then that was tantamount to unfair dismissal. // I agree BUT it is a branch of law ( constructive dismissal, ) where only 2% of cases are successful ....

so a negotiated settlement may be in order
ie what you can get
I quite like the idea of it is so stressful that you cant work. I certainly advise that after a bereavement

and yes I was told:
how on earth do we provide services?
when I asked for a week to bury my mother ....

[237SJ]

Woofgang - yes it is my company's policy by my point was the the OP's company might have similar.

[Prudie]

Although I have every sympathy a large proportion of the working public face a similar situation at some point in their lives. Thousands also give up work to become full-time carers, the idea that this is constructive dismissal is ludicrous (of course PP will come back and tell me I'm completely wrong...). you have been given a sympathetic option (go sick) or as mentioned ask for unpaid leave if you haven't got leave to use for this. Companies can't pay everyone to take lots of time off in these difficult situations. I work to a civil service contract which is probably the most 'giving' you can find but 5 days max is the norm for such circumstances. What exactly do you think they should do in your case?

[Deskdiary]

I'll never understand why people think the company they work for owes them a living.

Unless there's a contractual allowance, it will be up to the company whether to grant it on a case-by-case basis.

Not giving compassionate leave, unless not doing so is a breach of contract, is not constructive dismissal.

With an attitude like BagPussAA, I'd suggest his/her company is better shot of him/her.

In my experience only the very heartless company would not give some compassionate leave, but it shouldn't be considered an open cheque book. Any sustained period should be taken as holiday or unpaid.

[CLOTHEAD]

Just to say thank you to everyone who responded to this thread. I know the way forward now :-)

[BagPussAA]

DeskDiary..

You might find my attitude not to your liking but in my opinion, family comes before everything else. However, I would have been happy to work with my company to come to an arrangement where I could take care of my Father and still work but they refused to discuss this so I had to resort to the action I took. I needed the money to be able to pay my bills so could not even have had the time off unpaid - not that this had been offered as an option.

[-SharonA-]

It does seem to vary from job to job. When my mum was ill, my boss insisted I took compassionate leave and I was off for 3 months till my mum died.

[Prudie]

Was that with full pay Sharon?

[-SharonA-]

Was that with full pay Sharon?
Yes Prudie.

[Peter Pedant]

// I'll never understand why people think the company they work for owes them a living. //

because we also know that productivity ( output / worker unit) is higher if the worker ( unit ) is happy

that is there is an economic basis for compassion
( this is management 101 - chap 1 innit?)

[Peter Pedant]

// With an attitude like BagPussAA, I'd suggest his/her company is better shot of him/her. //

three guesses - Desk diary was a mgr of company that went under ....

as for my own mgr who asked how to run the service whilst I was burying my mother - I cut his throat a few years later, and thought - oh well .... bad luck old boy.....

[ummmm]

I don't think my doctor would hesitate in giving me a sick note.

It's an awfully stressful time. I'm sorry about your mum.