News0 min ago
Employer Pay
Right. This is rather a long story but I really need some help.
From the age of 4 I have been involved with a local theatre company. About 6 months ago, the owner of 25 years has been suffering ill health. She asked me if I could help her out and teach. I agreed to under the promise (no contract, but do have an email with this on) that I would be paid £2,300.00 in 3 interim payments of £600.00 and one of £500.00 for a 13 week term.
11 weeks in, I had only been paid one lot of £600.00 resulting in £1,700.00 being owed to me. I have been behind in my rent, car insurance and phone bills. I decided that I had had enough and took £1,200.00 from the money I had collected in fees to pay for the above and told the owner that I was no longer able to teach the theatre company as I had just been offered a full time job.
Now the owner is saying that my behaviour has been digusting and that she is seeing her Solicitor to claim the £1,200.00 back from me. I really don't know what to do and where I stand. I understand that I should not have taken £1,200.00 but surely this is the same as her not paying me the £1,700.00? I'm prepared to settle for the £1,200.00 and miss out on the £500.00 as I have left two weeks early.
I would REALLY appreciate some help on this as I'm so worried!
x
From the age of 4 I have been involved with a local theatre company. About 6 months ago, the owner of 25 years has been suffering ill health. She asked me if I could help her out and teach. I agreed to under the promise (no contract, but do have an email with this on) that I would be paid £2,300.00 in 3 interim payments of £600.00 and one of £500.00 for a 13 week term.
11 weeks in, I had only been paid one lot of £600.00 resulting in £1,700.00 being owed to me. I have been behind in my rent, car insurance and phone bills. I decided that I had had enough and took £1,200.00 from the money I had collected in fees to pay for the above and told the owner that I was no longer able to teach the theatre company as I had just been offered a full time job.
Now the owner is saying that my behaviour has been digusting and that she is seeing her Solicitor to claim the £1,200.00 back from me. I really don't know what to do and where I stand. I understand that I should not have taken £1,200.00 but surely this is the same as her not paying me the £1,700.00? I'm prepared to settle for the £1,200.00 and miss out on the £500.00 as I have left two weeks early.
I would REALLY appreciate some help on this as I'm so worried!
x
Answers
1 to 10 of 10
Best Answer
No best answer has yet been selected by AGreetham. Once a best answer has been selected, it will be shown here.
For more on marking an answer as the "Best Answer", please visit our FAQ.
You are right you should not have taken the money. Two wrongs do not make a right and you should have seen your solicitor about not being paid, not just helped yourself. I think you should offer to pay the money back, but say that you will be taking action to receive your due payment. You do have a contract, it does not have to be a formal legal written document for a contract to exist, just that you have the offer in an email and you have been carrying out the workr and been paid in part to show that it exists.
are the fees paid in cash and given to you as the ill owners replacement? Are you running the business in her absence? If so, you have the ill owners permit (via email) to operate the business; the illness absolves the owner from running the business.
The fees should be in a separate 'business' bank account (that you open) for the business; you remove your salary as agreed and leave surplus in business account to agree on when the ill owner recovers.
The fees should be in a separate 'business' bank account (that you open) for the business; you remove your salary as agreed and leave surplus in business account to agree on when the ill owner recovers.
Please answer Factor's good questions, then he (and / or I) will respond further.
The angle at which we may be able to come at this for you is through the difference between whether you should have been an employee, or whether you should have been self-employed. It doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't have taken the money, but if we can help you demonstrate to her that you were an employee and hence she have have been dealing with HMRC by taking NI and tax off you under PAYE, it must persuade her that she is better off backing away from further confrontation with you. "Otherwise, the HMRC is going to take a very dim view of you employing me in this unlawful manner". Get my drift?
But we need more information first.
The angle at which we may be able to come at this for you is through the difference between whether you should have been an employee, or whether you should have been self-employed. It doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't have taken the money, but if we can help you demonstrate to her that you were an employee and hence she have have been dealing with HMRC by taking NI and tax off you under PAYE, it must persuade her that she is better off backing away from further confrontation with you. "Otherwise, the HMRC is going to take a very dim view of you employing me in this unlawful manner". Get my drift?
But we need more information first.
Thank you for all of your responses.
She still hasn't got back to me. I have emailed her (the way we communicate) offering her payment of the £1,200.00 as soon as I know when I am to be paid.
As far as being employed/self employed, I believe that I was employed as the way we worked things was that I saw her every couple of weeks to give her the fees. I asked for payment of my wages two months back and since then have barely heard anything from her. I've had to post the fees through her door! (The fees are paid in cash to me to give to her and then she was supposed to write me a cheque for my wages).
I'm just incredibly worried as I have just started my full time job now and really want to know where I stand/where she stands from a legal point of view. I appreciate that I shouldn't have taken the money but I was desperate and had I suppose a moment of madness. However, I do feel that since she owes me over £1,200.00 then I have what is rightfully mine?
I just really want to know where I stand in the eyes of a Solicitor before seeking advice.
I could get £1,200.00 from my Mum providing I would be paid the £1,200.00 that I am owed. I have already offered this to the owner but just really want confirmation in writing that I will be paid for the work that I have done. Feeling awful about this though. It's not at all in my nature to take this money but as I said above, I was rather desperate.
She still hasn't got back to me. I have emailed her (the way we communicate) offering her payment of the £1,200.00 as soon as I know when I am to be paid.
As far as being employed/self employed, I believe that I was employed as the way we worked things was that I saw her every couple of weeks to give her the fees. I asked for payment of my wages two months back and since then have barely heard anything from her. I've had to post the fees through her door! (The fees are paid in cash to me to give to her and then she was supposed to write me a cheque for my wages).
I'm just incredibly worried as I have just started my full time job now and really want to know where I stand/where she stands from a legal point of view. I appreciate that I shouldn't have taken the money but I was desperate and had I suppose a moment of madness. However, I do feel that since she owes me over £1,200.00 then I have what is rightfully mine?
I just really want to know where I stand in the eyes of a Solicitor before seeking advice.
I could get £1,200.00 from my Mum providing I would be paid the £1,200.00 that I am owed. I have already offered this to the owner but just really want confirmation in writing that I will be paid for the work that I have done. Feeling awful about this though. It's not at all in my nature to take this money but as I said above, I was rather desperate.
I'm not a lawyer so I wouldn't necessarily take anything I say on this matter as gospel but I don't really see this as a major problem and I doubt any court would either. I'd be surprised if she wasn't laughed out of court if she attempted to take action on it.
You were clearly owed money and exercised a "lien" over assets you held on behalf of the person owing you money. I don't especially see why that's any different to a garage refusing to release your car to you until repairs are paid in full (as many do). All you are doing is holding the money until you are paid what you are due or it's accepted as a contra settlement.
You were clearly owed money and exercised a "lien" over assets you held on behalf of the person owing you money. I don't especially see why that's any different to a garage refusing to release your car to you until repairs are paid in full (as many do). All you are doing is holding the money until you are paid what you are due or it's accepted as a contra settlement.
I'm not a lawyer either, Skyline but I'm not sure about being able to do as you suggest if you are an employee - you could as a self-employed contractor where there is a contract for services between the two parties.
The HMRC tests for whether employee or self-employed are things like:
Do you work regular hours hours decided for you by the employer? - or can you decide
Do you supply all the support materials required in the course of your work?
There's a longer list half way down this page.
http://www.hmrc.gov.u...nt-status/index.htm#1
As an employee, one is handling money on behalf of the employer and its the employer's money.
But if you reckon you are an employee, go back to my origianl point - Mrs Theatre-Owner, how come you haven't been dealing with the HMRC for me as an employee, paying the employer's NI contributions on my behalf, deducting the employee's NI and tax as HMRC says you must do? The HMRC aren't going to be too pleased for you, are they now? Tell you what, we agree a financial settlement between us and just part company.
Just to remind you, if you manage to pull this off without further ado, you must declare the earnings as 'self-employed' earnings with the HMRC - she's just as likely to shop you as not paying tax if you don't.
The HMRC tests for whether employee or self-employed are things like:
Do you work regular hours hours decided for you by the employer? - or can you decide
Do you supply all the support materials required in the course of your work?
There's a longer list half way down this page.
http://www.hmrc.gov.u...nt-status/index.htm#1
As an employee, one is handling money on behalf of the employer and its the employer's money.
But if you reckon you are an employee, go back to my origianl point - Mrs Theatre-Owner, how come you haven't been dealing with the HMRC for me as an employee, paying the employer's NI contributions on my behalf, deducting the employee's NI and tax as HMRC says you must do? The HMRC aren't going to be too pleased for you, are they now? Tell you what, we agree a financial settlement between us and just part company.
Just to remind you, if you manage to pull this off without further ado, you must declare the earnings as 'self-employed' earnings with the HMRC - she's just as likely to shop you as not paying tax if you don't.
1 to 10 of 10
