Listener No. 4380: Stomach My Mynot

[AHearer]

I didn't even think of trying to fit the entries into the grid until I had cold-solved all but six. A couple of false starts, but as usual with this sort of puzzle once a few had slotted together the rest followed without too much trouble. Tough, though. Many thanks, MynoT.

[jim360]

Meanwhile, I am staring at only half of the clues cold-solved so far, and with not enough of the obvious starting points yet, it's going to be a while I suspect before I get the point of this one. Still, at least I got Rasputin's effort correct...

[starwalker]

I also cold-solved most of the clues and then metaphorically at least, started to throw it together, still without any understanding. I managed to get over half of the grid in before the penny finally dropped, and all became clear. Many thanks MynoT. That was much harder than your normal offerings, but well worth the effort.

Congratulations Jim.

[Ruthrobin]

Yes, how good to see that Jim won the Rasputin! (He also wrote a Listen With Others blog on it - http://listenwithothers.com/2016/01/08/listener-4377-russian-roulette-by-rasputin/ - many thanks to Jim).
Indeed, our experience with MynoT's Stomach was the same as Starwalker's. An attractive gridfill then a long time to the p.d.m. Just right, though, for a January puzzle.

[Contrarian]

Yes, lots of very simple clues, but a very nice puzzle nonetheless.

Thanks MynoT.

[trux]

I enjoyed this, very much. Took a while for the P to D, but once it did, one sped along to the elegant conclusion. I've a couple of nit-picks, but they did not (and should not) detract from a well-crafted puzzle. Many thanks to MynoT.

[jockie]

Very nice, with the gimmick well concealed. Not 100% sure about the Biblical genealogy though.

[Contrarian]

Yes, Jockie, that's surely an error.

[TheBear69]

Thanks, MynoT...excellent as usual!

The Biblical genealogy is definitely an error. I'm surprised the editors missed that as it's not that obscure.

[Ruthrobin]

It has been corrected on the website so was clearly an error. However, I'd be surprised if that really upset anyone's solve though it did hold us up till the very end.

[tnap]

Am I the only one to worry about the parenthetic "in a modern, scientific way", to which the instruction seems at odds? I guess I'll have to take the instruction literally rather than follow modern, scientific practice.

[Ruthrobin]

I've used what Wiki provides which is, I believe (on solid grounds) what relevant authorities currently use and is hardly 'modern'.

[upsetter]

Very enjoyable Listener classic, though suspect most solvers would get the PDM before the extra letters message.
BTW RR thanks for the Alekhine pic!

[pushmi-pullyu]

I was very bothered by the biblical error so I'm glad it has been noted. I've still got a long way to go, but on a wet and blustery afternoon there's nothing I'd rather be doing.

[Scorpius]

Let me get this straight. A jumbled set of answers cannot be fitted into the grid because the longest answers are too long for the longest grid entries and because the the totals of the various answer lengths don't match the grid anywhere. We're told a message will help us sort things out. If only. The trouble is that the message is jumbled with the clues, so to read the message we need to fill the grid, thus establishing the normal clue order, by which time the message is redundant because we've already completed the grid.

That reminds me, I must read Catch-22 again.

[perseverer]

Will say no more than the message is not redundant.

[fyellin]

@scorpius: Just fill it in as best you can. The anomaly becomes readily apparent. Worry about the resolution later.

@tnap: I'm presuming that "modern" just indicates the current definition, and not past definitions.

My (slight) concern is that two of the anomalies can be resolved in two different ways, at least according to Wikipedia. I'm not conversant enough in the field to know which is the better resolution.

[AHearer]

I posted my entry with something that relied more on the first word of the message than a desire to be 'modern' (but would an old fogey do anything ele?). To my mind, if one goes thoroughly modern what one gets are more like abbreviations. I've been wrong before, though.

[emcee]

Good puzzle but I do wonder whether any leeway will be given for the final step...

[doctormatt]

Very elegant: I am very glad that the weather meant more time available than usual, but all done now.

[Scorpius]

Fyellin, thanks for the encouragement, but my comment above wasn’t really a plea for help; I was simply highlighting the paradox of the puzzle’s construction. I cold-solved all but two clues, worked out the likely message, hoping that the unsolved clues didn’t have extra letters, then constructed the grid with ease based on the sequence of answers with extra letters.

I think the form of the final grid is very unclear. Wiki seems to suggest the forms recommended by an international scientific body, which seems to be what AlHearer has in mind, but are the other forms ‘unscientific’? Whether they are or not, the grid would look far more interesting with them.

AHearer, to address your point about abbreviations consider an analogy in a completely different field: Fe is the xxxxxx for iron, so I don’t see a contradiction in using the forms you allude to.