The London Underground

[Stevee]

I normaly drive everywhere - Yesterday I took the Tube from Canada Water to High St Ken it cost �4.60 return. Going by road the return journey is 18 miles.

This works out at 25.5p per mile.

I drive a VW Passat in town I can expect about 5.2 miles per litre this works out at about 16p per mile if I pay 81p per litre (which I do at ASDA)

Given that as many as 5 people can get in my car.

How do London Transport justify the price.

[jno]

What you lose in money you gain in time and convenience. My bet is the tube is a lot quicker than driving; and instead of stressing out in traffic jams you can read a book, listen to an iPod, or engage in animated discussion with your fellow travellers about Michael Jackson. Taking four passengers with you would be a noble way of decreasing noxious emissions... but just how often do you do it?

[ian.miller]

and you haven't included the costs of your car, depreciation, maintenance, tax, insurance etc.

[Clanad]

Almost as importantly, you haven't considered the fact that probably hundreds of people are sharing in the 25.5p cost you cite.  Only 5 are "sharing" in the cost in your car.  Therefore the cost per passenger mile is considerably less than anything you can achieve in your car...

[chazza]

Clanad, who are the hundreds of people sharing Stevee's train fare?  Are they not all paying their own train fare, therefore are they not all paying 25.5p per mile?

[vicars]

Including the cost of running the car and depreciation, the cost per mile by car is in the region of 30p per mile. Land Rovers tend to be the highest cost at about 40p per mile (Top Gear, some time ago). So this would still make it cheaper by Tube. So long as you never need to buy the car you are OK but if you buy a car and use both then nobody is a winner due to the resources needed in the first place to build the car. Until we have a transport system where we all car share or can rely on public transport entirely (with a taxi or 2 in between) then we will continue to have a very wasteful method of transporting ourselves. On an individual basis, imagine if you spent your time on the tube learning a language or or something useful and put that knowledge to good use - the tube would be by far the better bet, and the more people that use it should in theory allow the cost of tube transport to fall.

[Clanad]

chazza, I see where the (my) confusion lies... I interpreted the 25.5p per mile as the cost of operation of the subway, not the cost to the individual.  I can now see that more information is required to know what the total cost per mile is to operate the subway, which then can be divided by the total passengers to arrive at a cost per passenger mile, which will still be significantly lower than achievable in a car... Thanx!

[Stevee]

Points :-)

1) If I have 5 people in the car the cost is 1.04p per mile per person. 5 people on the tube �23 5 people in the car the same as 1.

2) Time if  You take the time im on the Tube the the tube is slightly faster, if however you add departure point to arrival point (i.e walking) car is faster.

Remember the savings increase with every journey plus the indifinables.

I may have to drive, but I have my music, I have my own space. No BO except mine :-) no pushing or shoving and I get to sit the whole way. Stress is a two way thing.

Until LT makes it worh my while the car is the way to go.

[Gilli]

I agree with Stevee re: the relative stresses of your own car vs. the tube, with his car winning out !

For women in particular, there is also the safety aspect of your own transport to consider which is no small concern ..... in most cases, by driving yourself you can usually get right up close to your destination, without having to worry about the walk at the other end. Furthermore, there's no danger of getting groped (or worse) by some sicko in your own car - or of rounding a corner in a long deserted pedestrian walkway and coming face to face with a load of drunken yobs.

Feeling safe is priceless ..... or at least it should be .... this Govt. is determined to force motorists onto public transport irrespective of how safe it is.

[stevie21]

You're paying for someone to drive you there. You don't factor this in when on the road. What's the cost comparison between tube v taxi?

I'd understand your sentiment more if London Transport consistently made obscene profits : they set the prices according to how much it costs to provide the service.

[Gef]

Most stupid question I have seen for a while. I can buy my diiner for much less than the local restaurant will charge. I can have home brewed beer for a fraction of pub prices. Like restaurants and pubs, the underground and railways in general provide a service for which you pay (or not).

[Stevee]

Gef

The point I am making is the service is overpriced for what it is  but London transport say we are getting great service which we arn't.

I cab see by your answer you are to thick to understand the point so I have put it in basic terms so even you can understand it,

[stevie21]

children, children !!!
No need to get personal. Seriously, no need.

[ian.miller]

Considering you aren't even factoring in all your costs, then I don't see your questions as a properly defined arguement anyway, although i presume you park for free as well, both at home and at your place of work. You have skewed the perspective to your own point of view without any real regard for the true factors.

A more realistic comparison would be between the cost of a years unlimited season ticket travel on the tube, and your car. You could travel on the tube every day 10 times a day (excatly as say a sales rep might) and your running costs are zero, you only have one outlay. Your car wil cost you money for ever mile you drive, every time you park and every moment you own it - now you are by far worse off even filling up at Asda.

Gef has a very valid point that like anything else it's a service, take it or leave it. For many people and in many situations the tube is both invaluable AND the best option. But just like anything, it isn't always the best option and car/taxi/bus/train etc also have their day.

[miss_chase]

Are you joking? That's not that expensive really - you travelled 18 miles for under a fiver. It's only shorter journeys that seem expensive - why not walk or take the bus?  You can travel all round London for about three quid.

Also if you go elsewhere to another part of the country and look at the cost of public transport. It'll cost you a lot more to go a short distance - what about trains?

I hate people who use their cars in the middle of London - how stupid are they to spend 45minutes stuck in the middle of traffic. Thank you Ken for the congestion charge - and raise it to one hundred pounds (ok, am getting a bit excessive). Take a bus and you can use the bus lane - hurrah!

[miss_chase]

oops, sorry. I don't hate people who use cars. Am sure I will use one mysefl one day ...

[Pinotage]

You are not comparing like with like. You had no commitment to the tube till you went in thestation, and you had no commitment when you left, You didn't have to park it, insure it, maintain it, cover depreciation...

A fair comparison would be to compare the cost of a taxi.

Also, the one off train fare is expensive - more than it should be in my opinion - but most people don't pay that fare using season tickets, carnets etc.