Irrelevance Of A Meaningful Existence Due To Predicted Eventuality Of The Universe - Or Not?

[I_Hate_Infinity]

Hi ABers,

Not been on for a while, been off reading and expanding my knowledge about my deepest troubles. And I return with a stonker for you, which I hope even the most hardened experimental science buffs will have a crack at, despite it's proximity to being a philosophical question. So... lengthy title that demands further explanation.

I'm an incredibly deep thinker and I use my cognitive abilities to tackle The question... The meaning life, the universe and everything (as Douglas put it.) I've thus exposed my mind to the unimaginable durations of time yet to come and the fate of humanity in it's wake.

IF we assume mankind never manages to colonise any other planetary body outside our own solar system, then come 5 billions years or so, our star will exhaust it's supply of nuclear fuel and enter it's death phases, swallowing up Earth along the way.

Otherwise, IF we assume mankind has managed to colonise and breed successful generations on a world around another star in our galaxy, therefore avoiding the destruction of Earth, and can repeat this process from star to star, mankind will inevitably suffer the ultimate fate of the rest of the matter in our galaxy and fall victim to the gravity of the super massive black hole in it's centre.

Further more, IF we assume humans have sufficient research and technology to allow them to travel to another galaxy and repeat this process, we can prolong mankind's existence exponentially and conclude they might thrive until the end of the last shining star, hundreds of billions of years from now...

However... scientist are grouped (mainly) in to two camps for the theory of how the universe evolves and ends. One argument is for the 'big crunch', where the Universe stops expanding and under the force of gravity retracts, becoming smaller and smaller until it reaches it's starting point. A singularity. (This theory necessarily condemns Humanity to a squashed end and erasure from existence.) The other camp argues the universe will keep expanding, ever after increasing the distances between the galaxies, making each galaxy an island of matter in the void. Once all the hydrogen is burned up by star formation and death, heavier elements ejected by super nova will eventually be swallowed up by the galactic black hole which (it is believed) the only way it will lose mass and dissipate is by slowly radiating energy , x-rays and such like.

VERY long winded I do apologise but here's my point... If the fate of the universe is either of those two theorised conclusions, man kind will be destroyed, even if the survive to see the last sun bun out. All of human history gone, genetic information from parent to child gone, all of mankind's great research and achievements, inventions and constructions will be gone...

If you, as I have, expose your mind to the vast time frame involved and contemplate our believed fate of our species, doesn't it strike you as pointless to do anything useful with life? Might not it be more logical to be minimal instead of maximum? Do you believe your life will have ANY meaning of relevance to a universe that's seen humanity wiped from it's space?

If I were to be a great orator and progressive politician or I was a Heroin addict living on the streets, once human memory of me or written record of me is lost/deleted/corrupted or damaged beyond salvation, my life and it's achievements would amount to ZERO, especially when mankind ceases to exist and all matter in the universe is either squashed or swallowed up and evaporated into pure energy....

Very sorry for long question, if you've laboured your way through that block of words, might I encourage you to add your own thought below?

IHI

[Old_Geezer]

Certain I've read in in a number of places jake, not that I've noted where. I seem to recall it tended to come up in articles about black holes and how nothing was lost even when things fall into them.

[China Doll]

Gosh... and there's me just thinking about my shoes and hair... you are like sooooo clever.

[DangerUXD]

No x 3

Oddly enough it's the same argument on earth that goes through the minds of the offspring of the very rich: Dad is loaded shall I try or shall I wait till he pops it?

[wildwood]

The answer is 42.

[Canary42]

The ultimate fate of the universe is scientifically a challenging subject, but to live your life by it is so far up your own anus as to be suffocating. Climb down and live for the moment (or at least for the foreseeable future - a mere blip in the cosmic calendar)

[chakka35]

That there must be a meaning to life is one of mankind's greatest conceits. Some people just can't accept that, on the scale of the universe,we are just one set of creatures who have come about, like lots of other animals and plants, by the inevitable and automatic process of evolution.

The thing is to stop the self-aggrandisement and just enjoy that life that we are lucky to have. It doesn't last long, so it's as well not to waste any of it twittering away with a lot of self-important pseudo-philosophy.

[atalanta]

This is the problem of existentialism, which it seems you have not read. Jean-Paul Sartre is one of the main thinkers you should read on this subject. Existentialists accept that there is no meaning or purpose in life ( life is "absurde" as the French say). But they say that if you want a purpose in life you must impose your own purpose on it. You can thus be a Christian existentialist, a Buddhist existentialist, a wiccan existentialist or whatever else grabs you and becomes your purpose in life.
But anyway, humanity cannot possibly survive until the end of this planet, let alone the end of the universe. It will not be long before wars over water and other resources create anarchy and disaster, after which there may be a few survivors who may ( just possibly) evolve into Homo sapientissimus. But the humans who we are now will not survive anywhere near long enough for your worries to amount to anything. Sub specie aeternitatis, we really are not that important.

[sandyRoe]

Existential angst is a real downer. :-(

[vascop]

The time-scale till the sun burns us all up is so long you can make sensible judgements by acting as if it will never happen. One thing is certain, our children and their children (and so on for a long time), will be around long after we are gone and so I think that fact in itself is enough to give us pause for thought and to forget all this selfish self-indulgence and confront the practical issues in life which will affect our future children.

[daisya]

Does the meaning of life have to encapsulate religion? I think some have to have an answer for everything including why we are here and what the meaning of being alive is. I would love to know but none of us will have the answer (not in this life)... perhaps I've not got the gist of the question (a few drinky-poohs have fuddled the brain..cough cough)...but how can we answer half of the questions posed here because none of us knows the definitive answer let alone the fate of the universe. Who knows? Who cares? Who can do anything about it...(hic).

[Old_Geezer]

I had very probably read New Scientist/Scientific American articles on this sort of thing Jake http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_information_paradox. Must read through it again sometime soon since I tend to forget the details after a while.

[Old_Geezer]

I don't see that this question should be confined to life alone. There seems to be little point to a lifeless universe either. Little point in anything.

I guess with intelligent life comes the ability to conceive of something outside of the physical realm, a non-corporeal existence which is only evident here by some kind of interaction between there and here. That gives one more of a lift than assuming life (and the individual) is just an emergent illusion from the connection of physical "stuff". If you wish to pick a conjecture to believe in, that seems a good choice for favourite. It pushes the question of existence out as not being one for the present.

[I_Hate_Infinity]

Thanks all for your thoughts and educational prefaces of thoughts of previous humans who thought as deeply as me. I've known terrible loss in my life (without a sob story I lost my father at 16 and at 17 my Mother and Sister died in a motorway smash) I've some extended family but don't get on with them despite loving them for their kind natures. I've been treated for clinical depression that had its routes in my pubescent teen years and therefore is a chemical imbalance NOT the environmental depression one might experience with similar loss as I have endured.

I promise those who claim I'm pretentious and egotistical that I don't act that way in public, though I've been tested for Mensa and scored 128, 128, and 129 in the three IQ tests given to me, so just short of qualifying. I've spent the last 10 years rationalising my life and it's purpose in this world so believe me when I say I HAVE thought very deep and very hard about it.

I guess from some of the suggestions given to me I should continue finding rewards for existence from the pleasures I get from my comforts, knowledge, music and passionate people. My soul has a horrible empty core, pessimistic and unfulfilling in its nature, surrounded by communicable self indulgences which nourish but fail to satisfy the black hole at the centre of my heart.

My emotional state is suppressed by the lid I place on it because I am unable to manage them when they surface. My friends have little other interest other than football and drinking. I crave logical, thought provoking banter but sorry if I made you groan looking at this nature and compelling you to write a negative response. I wasn't my intention. Many thanks for your thoughts though.

IHI

[I_Hate_Infinity]

*not nature - question

[LazyGun]

@ IHI at the risk of harping on about something -
"I promise those who claim I'm pretentious and egotistical that I don't act that way in public, though I've been tested for Mensa and scored 128, 128, and 129 in the three IQ tests given to me, so just short of qualifying. I've spent the last 10 years rationalising my life and it's purpose in this world so believe me when I say I HAVE thought very deep and very hard about it."

This sentence itself has a rng of pretension about it.

I am sorry for your loss, and would applaud your efforts at struggling with clinical depression etc, and I would also applaud your desire to seek logical and satisfying answers - but,especially on the question you posed- do not let the fate of humanity in 100s or 1000s of years, or the fate of the earth in billions, or the fate of the sun in 10s of billions of years detract or substantively effect your search of fulfillment in life now - for that you need to seek closer to home - family, friends, activities, mingling with the public, appreciation of lifes many splendours, from music to plays, to films, to food and drink to nature itself....

[I_Hate_Infinity]

My apologies. I meant to show evidence that my claim of great cognitive abilities were of sufficient depth to tackle one's place in universal existence. Again sorry if that seems pretentious. Likewise I apologise for any impression I gave that compelled you to conclude I was looking down my nose at the AB community, I felt I was reaching out to likeminded, equally intellegent individuals who like posting on the science forum for honest opinions from experience or education that I might have to draw upon for direction in my own struggle with OP.

Further more this is a genuine respectful apology to all who shared LG's views and not a heavily worded sarcastic response. I guess I tend not to listen to external advice, only to those I communicate with. Hence my decision to seek guidance from anonymous peers on AB. And I feel I've got to understand many in the science forum community. Yourself included LG.

IHI

[I_Hate_Infinity]

And in response to your suggestions in the latter half of your post, I most certainly will seek further comfort in humanities expression of arts and story telling. It's what's kept me afloat thus far. It just sadness me that all these wonderful beautiful creations that a mutated ape on an insignificant blue spec of a planet in an uninteresting corner of a normal galaxy amongst Billions of others in a peculiar and unexplainable universe, shall one day cease to exist...

I count myself lucky to part of such a productive, innovative and comfortable world I inhabit today, but I think ignorance of that point in particular IS bliss, knowing what I've contemplated drains so much enjoyment out of life's miracles. It's a mental battle I shouldn't of bored you all with, as it has been contemplated and addressed by many a deep thinker in history already and the AB community reminded me that I'm not alone to think such thoughts. I think that's the best feeling I've had in a while :)

[LazyGun]

@IHI - I think its one of those "glass half full, glass half empty" situations :)

I would try and refocus on what makes life right now so exciting - how far we have come, the pace of technological development, prospects for the near future - and when I really what to amaze myself, I go diving in the Maldives, or Venezuela - Endlessly enthralling and magnificent :)

[beso]

Hold on. Sure there are bigger ones and plenty more like it but the Milky Way is a giant barred spiral galaxy. These types are among the most beautiful of all galaxies.

[DaisyNonna]

Pretentious rubbish. Any help to another human being is not to be equated with zero.