Evolution

[bobclean]

Does anybody else find it a huge backward step in thinking and logic that in the US (Kansas), schools must now teach that evolution is just a theory, and that the universe is so complex there may be 'intelligent design' (ie a creator). <A target='_blank' href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4419796.stm&am p;quot;>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/441 9796.stm</A>

I naively thought that in the modern world of science and technology that myths were assigned to the dustbin of historyt. Apparently not. Superstition and hokum is obviously alive and kicking in the USA. What next? Maybe teach them the earth is flat?

[mibn2cweus]

In lieu of both why not teach critical thinking skills instead; how to distinguish fact from fiction, truth from lies, enlightenment from deception, science from religion, respect from worship, knowledge from belief, certainty from faith, mysticism from learning, reality from fantasy, wisdom from whim, method from madness, reason from rhyme, thoughts from feelings, love from hate, hope from fear, joy from sorrow, good from bad, right from wrong, purpose from intent, help from hurt, autonomy from dependence, earning from stealing, morality from usury, self-interest from irrationality, bananas from oranges, etc�?

[anfbeauty]

I have news for you... Evolution is a theory. As a matter of fact its called the THEORY of evolution, meaning it is not a proven fact. Neither that the universe was created by an intellegent design. They are both Theories- that is a fact, look it up in your science book. But truely, in my own opinion, to say the world- better yet the universe- was created out of nothing, is just as logical as walking into a forest and finding a laptop and then conclude that the laptop is a product of dirt evolving over billions of year. You would have to be a little crazy.

Have you ever studied astronomy; how beautiful and complex the heavens are? Or have you ever studied the human body, down to the makeup of a cell? You truely believe that chance brought all of that together? Have you ever considered that if the earth was 100 miles closer to the sun or 100 miles further away that we would either freeze or burn up. Isn't it amazing how chance set us directly in the one place where we would survive.

I hope you all realize that it takes a hell of a lot more faith to believe we all appeared out of chance than to believe that there is a divine creator that placed everything where it would work perfectly together.

I would also like to point out the second law of thermodynamics- which basicly says that all things are subject to entropy which completely contradicts evolution and what atheists believe to be how our world has come together.

So in conclusion, there are no facts on how our world came to be what it is today. We only have theories; but to exclude one theory over the other would be an injustice to our upcoming generations. At least let them look for themselves. Maybe one of those children will find fact in all of this mess of theories. Maybe they wont, but at least we are teaching them to explore ideas and to find their own answers.

[mibn2cweus]

Not many are foolhardy enough to suggest that everything came from nothing. Neither evolution nor �Intelligent Design� holds this view. However, �Intelligent Design� does inherently propose that intelligence came form nothing and this is exceedingly more preposterous than any attempts so show how the universe came into existence in a step-by-step pre-post cause and effect evolutionary fashion.

The fact that the universe and humans are here is a self-evident fact. The existence of cells and an understanding of what we and the universe are and how this all came to be in its current state is an ongoing product of scientific research and investigation.

The distance between the Earth and Sun does vary by thousands of miles almost daily and as long as life adapts to subsequent changes life will continue to evolve. The Earth is just one of possibly trillions of trillions of planets and for life not to evolve on at least one planet is quite obviously ludicrous.

I would also like to point out the second law of thermodynamics- which basicly says that all things are subject to entropy does not apply to an open system where new energy is being applied. In case you haven�t noticed a little daytime astronomy will reveal that the sun continues to shine.

So in conclusion, your �facts� have little or no relationship to reality. Such �facts� are a dime a dozen and rather than contributing to human understanding only serve to confuse.

[Clanad]

mibn, etc., problem is, it's your reasoning that appears to have gaping holes. The universe did come into existence from nothing, ex nihilo... and current rheory pretty much predicts what occurred back to -10^44 seconds (Planck Time). This was not, by anyones definition, the product of evolution. There are, in fact only three possibilities, i.e., the universe brought itself into existence, man created the universe or something completely outside of and independant from the universe brought into existence.
Secondly, as relates to the Second Law of Thrmodynamics... the universe has always been considered, by astrophysicists, to be a closed system. As a matter of fact, within the first nano-second following the Big Bang, the universe began to cool, allowing for further development of itself. Cooling, all would agree, is the primary indicator of entropy... So, anfbeauty appears to be, how do you Brits say... Spot on?

[mibn2cweus]

Clanad, Your claim to knowledge of events beyond the scope of current physics does not surprise me. I am not an astrophysicist but your belief in something from nothing (and the universe no less) shrieks of mysticism and has no more validity than to suggest that a black hole contains nothing and that�s what makes its immense gravitational pull possible.

Secondly, whether the universe as a whole is a closed system is not relevant to life evolving on Planet Earth. The Earths Sun makes the Earth an open system for as long as it continues to shine just as surely as the dark age of the universe ended with the birth of the first star millions of years after the Big Bang!

Finally the universe as a whole has evolved from a few simple basic elements to the formation of carbon and the other heavier elements that make life possible, however if you view life as nothing than that explains everything.

[Clanad]

mibn, your argument isn't with me concerning the current evidence for the Big Bang, nor is it with me that the universe is a closed system or that the Earth is part of the universe, hence... You correctly suggest that the sun will extinguish one day, yet deny entropy... unique concept. You may wish to take your argument to the mystic astrophysicists and other scientists that are postulating the origins of the universe.

[mibn2cweus]

The Big Bang Theory gathers more and more validity as new knowledge become available and could possibly someday become scientific fact but at this point a complete lack of understanding about what lead to the Big Bang does not in anyway suggest that it was the result of nothing happening to nothing else.

Life giving birth to new life and star birth itself demonstrate that new orders of matter can originate from less organized and more chaotic forms. Entropy is not completely descriptive of all events taking place in a universe which may or may not as a whole be a closed system.

[mibn2cweus]

Oh, by the way, that lap-top that was found in the forest was most likely not created by �God� or entropy but through a collaboration of educated, rational and intelligent life forms.

[anfbeauty]

So what educated, rational, life forms created the universe?