Motoring3 mins ago
mind control
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Religion is mind control on a grand scale, fostered by governments around the world for their own political and financial ends.In a lot of countries religion is an arm of the government. what better way to keep populations obedient,in line and paying taxes than a daily dose of indoctrination by the clergy, the mullahs, clerics, priests,evangelists etc,etc. Karl Marx said "religion is the opiate of the masses" he was dead right.min
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Don't be silly, claymore.
You sound as though you've been indoctrinated yourself, spouting out those old chestnuts. They've all been repeated and rehashed....endlessly.
Religion or faith, as I prefer to call it is a chosen path by an individual at any time in a life. You can embrace it or ignore it, the choice is entirely yours. No one with a few brain cells would agree that it's en masse.
As I hate religion, my choice is Jesus - I was neither brainwashed, nor was I indoctrinated...entirely the opposite actually, but He is the person I choose to follow. No religious claptrap, endless rituals or prayers to follow slavishly - just a person.
You sound as though you've been indoctrinated yourself, spouting out those old chestnuts. They've all been repeated and rehashed....endlessly.
Religion or faith, as I prefer to call it is a chosen path by an individual at any time in a life. You can embrace it or ignore it, the choice is entirely yours. No one with a few brain cells would agree that it's en masse.
As I hate religion, my choice is Jesus - I was neither brainwashed, nor was I indoctrinated...entirely the opposite actually, but He is the person I choose to follow. No religious claptrap, endless rituals or prayers to follow slavishly - just a person.
"Opiate of the masses", slithering its way into a neighborhood near you!
Once religion has placed the necessity of rational thinking into the hands of an omniscient god, it is a small step to substitute submission of individual rights from the "will of God" to the "will of the People" and the commandments of leaders who are given absolute freedom to express what that will is and force it upon the unsuspecting who have turned over responsibility for their own lives and the hope of achieving happiness this side of the grave from an omnipotent god to an unrestrained leadership. Once these goals have been achieved and implemented it is no easy task to reverse the trend with people who have dedicated their own life and mind and sacrificed the lives of their fellow man to �holy� ideals and �sacred� principles.
Once religion has placed the necessity of rational thinking into the hands of an omniscient god, it is a small step to substitute submission of individual rights from the "will of God" to the "will of the People" and the commandments of leaders who are given absolute freedom to express what that will is and force it upon the unsuspecting who have turned over responsibility for their own lives and the hope of achieving happiness this side of the grave from an omnipotent god to an unrestrained leadership. Once these goals have been achieved and implemented it is no easy task to reverse the trend with people who have dedicated their own life and mind and sacrificed the lives of their fellow man to �holy� ideals and �sacred� principles.
Of course, governments would use any means necessary and available to justify their actions. This often includes/included religion, opposing aggression and danger, propaganda and dubious statistics. The whole blinking point of a government is to control the masses.
Incidentally there is much debate about what Marx really meant by that quote, some say he meant that religion brings people a sense of euphoria, others say that he meant it dopes and confuses. In some ways both are right.
Incidentally there is much debate about what Marx really meant by that quote, some say he meant that religion brings people a sense of euphoria, others say that he meant it dopes and confuses. In some ways both are right.
Under a different "Topic" there was a brief discussion of what consitutes irony. This question certainly contains an excellent example of just that.
The rather recent history of governments clearly demonstrates that totalitarian regimes such as existed in the U.S.S.R., China, Pol Pot's Cambodia, et al which attempt to ban religion actually strengthen the individual's actions in reaffirming his beliefs. It's all freedoms that are controlled by such tyrants.
Stalin, for example, certainly didn't need religion "... to keep populations obedient, in his killing an estimated 50 million of his countrymen, nor did Mao or Pol Pot. It hasn't actually worked very well in State established religions, such as Catholicism or the Church of England do you think?
In many cases where the populace has risen up against tyrannical fanatics, the leadership of such revolts has been the religious leaders emerging from the underground. One example is Apolinario de la Cruz leading the 1841 Phillipine Islands revolt against the Spanish...
The Christian Church flourished underground during Mao's persectuion and grew stronger. It has emerged so strongly today that the current Communist government in China quietly allows it, within certain ill-defined boundaries.
The Christian numbers of adherents in China is literally exploding and numbers by unofficial count as exceeding 100 million...
The rather recent history of governments clearly demonstrates that totalitarian regimes such as existed in the U.S.S.R., China, Pol Pot's Cambodia, et al which attempt to ban religion actually strengthen the individual's actions in reaffirming his beliefs. It's all freedoms that are controlled by such tyrants.
Stalin, for example, certainly didn't need religion "... to keep populations obedient, in his killing an estimated 50 million of his countrymen, nor did Mao or Pol Pot. It hasn't actually worked very well in State established religions, such as Catholicism or the Church of England do you think?
In many cases where the populace has risen up against tyrannical fanatics, the leadership of such revolts has been the religious leaders emerging from the underground. One example is Apolinario de la Cruz leading the 1841 Phillipine Islands revolt against the Spanish...
The Christian Church flourished underground during Mao's persectuion and grew stronger. It has emerged so strongly today that the current Communist government in China quietly allows it, within certain ill-defined boundaries.
The Christian numbers of adherents in China is literally exploding and numbers by unofficial count as exceeding 100 million...
...and chakka... I've seen your position(s) vis-a-vis the historicity of Jesus numerous times. I'd like to ask, humbly, if even one example of "historical evidence" were provided would you soften your stance... or two or three? Or, as I suspect, is the definition of acceptable "historical evidence" solely within your providence?
I find it interesting, claymore, that you quote Karl Marx to back up the point you're making, when in fact any extreme in politics can be just as much a controlling influence on the masses as organised religion. Incidentally, I don't follow manufactured religion, nor any particular manufactured 'brand' of politics, since I feel both are harmful and both mess with the mind. It's just an observation.
If it�s evidence you need chakka, look no further than the historical writings of the Middle East. Forget about the Bible; concentrate on Josephus, the Jewish historian and Tacitus, the greatest of the Roman historians, remembering also to take a look at the writings of Islam and the Jewish faith.
There was once doubt about crucifixion as a means of execution until fairly recently when bones were found with remains of rusty nails jutting out. Scholars also argued for decades about the existence of Pontius Pilate � until carvings were found with his name on it at Caesarea. The evidence of Jesus is well documented throughout history, so do you disbelieve historians and archaeologists of note?
If the Lord Himself stood before you would probably deny He was there, wouldn�t you?
Cetti, when you say Jesus 'the person',I can understand what you're saying to a degree, but since you capitalise the first letter of 'he', I'm not quite sure how far your take this faith you have. I believe Jesus existed, but I believe he was a man, born of a man and a woman. I do not believe he was the son of God, nor do I believe he was supernatural, but I think his message was good and can't be faulted. Love one another. That's it. The world needs nothing more. I'm pretty convinced that Jesus, as a devout Jew, had no intention whatsoever of heading a new religion, and if that's the Jesus you follow, then I'm with you there. Anything more than that, then no.
I know you're in the middle of a discussion with Chakka, and I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'd really like to know what you actually believe.
I know you're in the middle of a discussion with Chakka, and I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'd really like to know what you actually believe.
Oh naomi, you must have seen enough of my postings to know that to me Jesus is my whole life. I don't expect you to understand as it's a personal walk of faith, beset by numerous stumbles, not to mention the sneers and abuse from others. It's not an easy road, although my husband is alongside me when things get really sticky (and they do), but for me it's the only road. The narrow way....and Jesus is there helping and encouraging at every step.
Religion can and frequently has been and sometimes is mind control on a grand scale. I, for one, deplore that. But not all religion is like that. Karl Marx's comment was a wise one and should be a challenge for all churches. I regard his comment as being a criticism of a religious system that told/drugged the poor to accept their lot/their position in society because they would be rewarded in heaven. Hideous!
There were also hideous Victorian hymns that wrote this clap trap. One of them is "All thing's bright and beautiful" is one of them. It originally contained the words: "The rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate. He made them, high or lowly, And ordered their estate." Thankfully, these words were removed many moons ago.
A lot of religion is not like that. I haven't posted anything for here for ages but some of you may know that I am a church minister - previously in Scotland - and for the last 6 years in Sweden. My faith is life-affirming but I don't believe in being controlling or even converting people. To do that would mean that I can't accept people as they are. I believe we learn from each other on our journey through life and it's important to respect each other.
There were also hideous Victorian hymns that wrote this clap trap. One of them is "All thing's bright and beautiful" is one of them. It originally contained the words: "The rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate. He made them, high or lowly, And ordered their estate." Thankfully, these words were removed many moons ago.
A lot of religion is not like that. I haven't posted anything for here for ages but some of you may know that I am a church minister - previously in Scotland - and for the last 6 years in Sweden. My faith is life-affirming but I don't believe in being controlling or even converting people. To do that would mean that I can't accept people as they are. I believe we learn from each other on our journey through life and it's important to respect each other.
hello, RevShirls, haven't seen you for ages, how's things? Yes, well, quoting Marx on the subject of mind control has got to be a cute joke... oh, I know he's not responsible for what his followers did with his teachings, but then you might say the same of Jesus or Mohammad. I'm no believer, but one thing I do believe: if you want a good old rant, just wind up an atheist and let him loose. A remarkable numbr of them seem unable to live and let live; they just have to tell believers what fools they are. I expect the devil makes them do it.
Cetti, yes of course I've seen your posts, but I always thought you were a member of a church so was surprised - and interested - when you spoke of Jesus 'the person', and 'no religious claptrap, endless rituals or prayers ....... just a person', and wondered if you believe, as I do, that he was just a man with a message, or whether you see him as the son of God and believe in the virgin birth and the resurrection, as the churches do?
Football is mind control on a grand scale, as are the advertising industry, and the celeb culture that slavish followers of fashion submit themselves to.
The list goes on, but if you look at the sacrifices made by the adherents, then you could call them a religion, after all, religion is man made and is mans' attempt to reconcile himself to God.
The list goes on, but if you look at the sacrifices made by the adherents, then you could call them a religion, after all, religion is man made and is mans' attempt to reconcile himself to God.
Hello again naomi. Last post, as all this can get wildly out of hand, don't you agree?
Although I have an Anglican upbringing, at the moment I don't belong to any local church ( just moved house) but in the past I've attended Methodist, Evangelical, Pentacostal churches and everything in between?
My beliefs concerning the sovereignship, virgin birth, resurrection and ascencion of Jesus are probably the same as Clanad and Theland - all bible based, so nothing new to add, I'm afraid.
The problem with joining a post this late (in AB terms) is I usually have somehting to say to everyone!
Cetti - I'm still a little confused, but good for you!
Skreech - hey! You look better ;P - yes, i agree. scary huh?
chakka - are you saying Jesus doesn't exist just becuase we cant prove that he does?
RevShirls - Afternoon, I dont't believe we've met! Hope your well! I totally agree with your point about accepting people as they are, imagine how it would be if everyone took your view!
me x
Cetti - I'm still a little confused, but good for you!
Skreech - hey! You look better ;P - yes, i agree. scary huh?
chakka - are you saying Jesus doesn't exist just becuase we cant prove that he does?
RevShirls - Afternoon, I dont't believe we've met! Hope your well! I totally agree with your point about accepting people as they are, imagine how it would be if everyone took your view!
me x
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