Nationality

[IndieSinger]

A question I asked about national anthems has inspired me to ask this, which is an over-simplified view, but does reflect how many people feel.

If you're from Wales, you're welsh. If you're from Scotland, you're scottish. If you're from England, you're british.

In your opinions, is this a pity or does it show that England are more willing to accept a mixture of cultures? Discuss. [50 marks].

[sft42]

Over simplified, in a nut shell.....I am sure there are many people in Scotland and Wales who consider themselves British (and I know for certain there are in Northern Ireland, though technically they are not, they are from the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland).

And if you ask around I am sure you will find many that will describe themselves as English as well....Whether any of the populations are more or less willing to accept a growing number of immigrants which has added to the large cultural diversity is hard to gauge...I think it's less pronounced in both Scotland and Wales due to the larger proportion of rural and unpopulated areas of the countryside which lessens the effect slightly as most of these immigrants are concentrated in a smaller area.

I am sure that just like in Bradford where the BNP appear to be flourishing there are areas in other parts of the country where other cultures are resisted, and conversely,areas where they are more tolerant of a multi-racial society.

As for the question "is this a pity". I suppose it depends on your viewpoint about the matter. If you do think it's a shame then indentify with your own culture and name, use it and promote it......Being able to accept and welcome other cultures needn't mean a watering down of your own.

[apricot]

I always put English down as my nationality even though I am a bit of a Heinz. Gives greater definition I feel

[woofgang]

I call myself english when asked and agree with sft42 that respecting the culture of others doesn't mean watering down your own. It could be argued that people who genuinely respect value and enjoy cultural variety would respect and value their own

[happysax]

Of the English people I have met, most think of themselves as English. Of those who prefer to call themselves British, the reasons they give is that it is more inclusive, identifying with the Scots and Welsh and minorities. That's all very commendable, but I see no wrong in an English-born person (of any race) being proud to be English. The country that gave us The Beatles, George Orwell and cider can't be all bad!

[thewillow]

Well,George Orwell anyway.

[happysax]

Come on, willow, what about cider?

[sft42]

Cider making is thought to have started in the Nile area and been brought to the British Isles by the Romans according to some sources.

[slimjim]

I'll just try and answer the last bit. I'm English and proud of it. I love the fact that my country is arguably more culturally and racially tolerant than any other country I can name. There is nothing to feel pity for. You're either English or your not; people can be what they want to be. If I were the only proud Englishman alive, it wouldn't matter; I'd know what I was and wouldn't care what everyone else was.

[Gef]

sft wrote "in Northern Ireland ......though technically they are not (British), they are from the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland." If the people of Northern Ireland are not British then what are they? They are certainly not Irish (unless they were born in the Republic).

[bernardo]

Gef - The people in Northern Ireland are 'United Kingdomian' (unfortunately there is not a proper word for "United Kingdomian"). Politically they are British, but only in the sense that 'being British' is wider than merely coming from Britain (on this basis, it could be said that the people of Gibraltar or the Falklands are "British" even though they are not from Britain). Geographically they are Irish, but only in the sense that 'being Irish' means coming from the whole island of Ireland, and is wider than just being a citizen of the Republic of Ireland.

In answer to the original question, I think of myself as
1. United Kingdomian
2. British
3. English
4. European (N.B. I mean "Europe", not "The E.U.").
I think that it is a pity that people in Scotland and Wales do not predominantly think of themselves as British more than Scottish ort Welsh, but ultimately it is a matter of personal feelings.

[del_1690]

I believe that the reasons behind the english calling themselves british are both confusing and pluripotent. People of other british countries may feel that the english calling themselves british is in someway arrogant. It gives off a sense that the english are using the union flag and what it stands for to remind others that it is england who brought together the countries of our nation. Others could state that it is because the english are more open minded and culturally tolerant. But this sticks in the throat of the people who do not class themselves as british, as misuse of the flag (english hooliganism) has made other nations interchange the english country with the british nation. I personally am British as well as scottish but sometimes feel left out when the likes of the US talks of britain and only states all things english. We have a great nation and other cultures and religions only makes colourful this land and its traditions. But we have lost our identity to an extent. Patriotism and a strong belief in our government and the crown have all but gone in scotland and wales, the likes are now more willing to wave their country's flag and believe in Clwyd Cymru and the Scottish National Party manifestos. If patriotism of the UK was somehow evident and the english"arrogance" was subdued, maybe we wouldn't have this identity crisis.

[bernardo]

"Clwyd Cymru"? Do you mean Plaid Cymru?

[rarll]

I was actually born in the Far East,(long story), but have lived the large part,(over 30 years) of my 36 years in Northern Ireland. I consider myself to be Northern Irish. This is frowned upon because apparently you can only be one of two things - Irish or British. A ridiculous situation.

[sft42]

Gef sounded suprised (if possible in a written format) to hear that but it's very true....and show a lack of understanding on the whole irish thing in the mainland population in general......As for certainly not Irish....as Bernardo rightly points out that's not strictly true either as many people in NI hold both a British and Eire passport quite legally. United Kingdomish is a bit of a mouthful so I suppose for ease British it is.....As for not feeling British that would mean acceptance in being lumped in with the engs and I for one am not going to lie in that bed (unless it has anna friel next to me).

[IndieSinger]

Even with froggy feet?

[archbishop]

Thank God we are British/English/Welsh/Scottish/Irish and not French.

[saffstar]

It's interesting and heartening to see the high level of tolerence we anwerbankers seem to have for one another. I wish it was always the case. My Dad is Welsh, my Mum's English. I've lived in Wales all my life and I therefore consider myself to be Welsh. That doen't mean that I'm anti-British though. I recently had a baffling conversation with an English friend of mine in the pub who couldn't understand why non-Welsh speaking Taffs (like myself) don't just forget about all the Welsh nonsense and admit we're English! He then went on to tell me that I obviously support England when they play Wales at football! WHAAAAT???? However, we are after all a pretty harmonious union of four nations and I see this as something to be admired, especially after the conflicts in the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda and of course the Troubles. This shouldn't mean though that we can't be proud to be English, Scottish, Irish or Welsh and still get along fine.

[Muzzer]

I am Scottish, and Proud of it, I am also extremely proud that Scotland being a far smaller nation than England has contributed hugely, to Great Britain and the British Empire, In areas of technology, industry, philosophy etc. I feel it to be VERY VERY difficult though to express my pride in being British, due to the unbeleivable amount of English people that seem to think that the uNion Never happened and that Scotland is actually a part of England. The Ignorance is enormous! I have met so many English people, especially abroad who when chatting with them on the topic, will make silly references to their "English Passport" or the "English Government, prime minister of England and in one case, (considering recent world events) an Englishman even made reference of England going to war with Iraq!! ... I hear these things and It makes it so very difficult to be British, when so many English people portray the UK as simply English. This also casts a terribly confusing image for foreigners. I have lived the last 2 years in NZ and OZ and I have maybe met 3 or 4 people who actually know that the Union Jack ( as it's obviously in their flags too ) is British and not English. As one person I would like to think that I have corrected, and enlightened a whole bunch of people regarding what the UK actually is, as I have travelled around but my efforts are nothing compared to the high numbers of very well travlled English people out there who actually think they have an "English Passport" .... and the English often think Scots moan all the time about the Union... can you blame us? P.s. I love the UK and I am proud to be a Citizen of the Best country in the World.