1891 Census Newcastle-under-Lyme

[thickoeric]

I'm researching the Birch family from Newcastle-under-Lyme and can find them in the 1881 and 1901 censuses but nothing comes up for any of them in 1891. I can't understand it - does anyone know if the 1891 N-u-L census was destroyed in some way?

[dothawkes31]

You need to check the piece numbers, hang on i can do that,

[craft1948]

give me a name etc and I'll have a check for you......

[dothawkes31]

you need to look at RG12/3273-3289), at the start of each Enumeration District there is the description of the sensus enumerators route, if you know where they should be living you can tell by the route and then by going through that particular district whether anywhere is not then transcribed. use the original filmed source on ancestry and work through folio by folio if you have to.

Though also if you have only usded the transcribed index to check for then, i would go into the original filmed ED as they are probably mis transcribed, the B could have been misread as an R or the i as an e. etc.

[dothawkes31]

sp *census,
craft, go with spelling variations based on a transcriber not being able to read the enumerators hanbd writing. I can't check the 91at the moment sorry

[dothawkes31]

Hopefully Craft will find them but if not, contact the local archive and ask if they have a surname index there that has been done locally, it is often a more reliable one when it is done by local Family Historians.
http://www.tameside.g...studies#familyhistory

[dothawkes31]

sorry wrong library!!!
Newcastle Library
The Ironmarket Newcastle ST5 1AT
Tel: [phone]

[thickoeric]

Many thanks, everyone. Even more thanks to craft1948. My grandfather's name was Paul Johnson Birch, born in 1873 in Newcastle-under-Lyme, probably in the area called Dunkirk. (The 1881 census shows his age as 5, making his d.o.b. 1876, which is a big difference but all other records point to it being 1873). His parents' names were Joseph and Emma.

[dothawkes31]

Hi eric,
I found that family on the 1881 census last night, there are alot of children on there, if Paul was born in 1873 when were his brothers Joseph and James born? Joseph is listed as being 9 and James 7, if Joseph was 9 in April 1881 he must have been born in late 1871 or early 1872, if James was 7 in April 1881 he must have been born in late 1873 early 1874. I can't work out how Emma could fit in another pregnancy for Paul for a 1873 birth. i suppose it is just possible he arrived in early 1873, certainly the children that followed were very close together, and there is an error in the listing age wise as 3 year old John Henry is listed last when he should be listed after paul and before JESSE. Have you looked for all the children seperately? the older boys may be living from home and the older daughters may have married.

[thickoeric]

Hi, Dot, I've tried the children separately for the 1891 census and still had no luck. I'm now in the process of putting everybody's suggestions into practice!

[thickoeric]

This is making my 'ead 'urt! The 1901 census gives Paul's age as 28 which, again, makes his d.o.b. 1873 and the CWGC shows his age as 44 when he died in WWII in 1917, also making it 1873.

However, 1876 would fit in better with the 'giving birth every 2 years' which was their habit but then the 1901 census and the CWGC ruin that idea!!

His brother, Joseph, died in a mining accident in 1891, aged 19 and I have a copy of the inquest into it (found online). The disaster was on 2nd April 1891, about 3 days before the census was taken so he never made it but that makes his age of 9 in the 1881 seem o.k.

I think I'm going to have a cuppa but will return!

[craft1948]

Hi Eric
Would this be your guy.......I have a First World War enlistment document which shows a Paul Birch enlisting on the 31/8/1914 and gives his age as 39 years 6 months so he would have been born in 1875.
His occupation is given as a Collier and he lives with his parents at 4 Dunkirk, Newcastle.
It also states that he has previously served in the Royal Artillery so I wonder if this is where he was in 1891 as I think you could enlist then at the age of 15...........let me know if this is him and I will keep on looking.

[craft1948]

Sorry Eric I've found a better copy of his enlistment document and 4 Dunkirk was not his parents home......it states that he has lived away from his parents for more than 3 years and that he is married. If you give me an email address I will send you a copy of the enlistment doc.

[craft1948]

I don't think this guy knows when he was born as in 1911 he gives his age as 34 which would be 1877. In 1911 he is living at 4 Dunkirk with his wife Rosehannah and 2 children Joseph and James Henry. I think it's most likely to be 1875 Q1 6b 75 Newcastle-under-Lyme.

[craft1948]

1891 census....

Birch Joseph 57 Head Coal Miner Fort, Staffordshire 3 Pratt Street, Newcastle Under Lyme RG12/2150/F? CD1 R12_2150.pdf p.97
Birch Emma 48 Wife Ipstones, Staffordshire 3 Pratt Street, Newcastle Under Lyme RG12/2150/F? CD1 R12_2150.pdf p.97
Birch Annie 28 Daughter Tailor Ipstones, Staffordshire 3 Pratt Street, Newcastle Under Lyme RG12/2150/F? CD1 R12_2150.pdf p.97
Birch James 16 Son Coal Miner Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire 3 Pratt Street, Newcastle Under Lyme RG12/2150/F? CD1 R12_2150.pdf p.97
Birch Paul 14 Son Coal Miner Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire 3 Pratt Street, Newcastle Under Lyme RG12/2150/F? CD1 R12_2150.pdf p.97
Birch John 12 Son Scholar Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire 3 Pratt Street, Newcastle Under Lyme RG12/2150/F? CD1 R12_2150.pdf p.97
Birch Alice 9 Daughter Scholar Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire 3 Pratt Street, Newcastle Under Lyme RG12/2150/F? CD1 R12_2150.pdf p.97
Birch Alfred 6 Son Scholar Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire 3 Pratt Street, Newcastle Under Lyme RG12/2150/F? CD1 R12_2150.pdf p.97
Birch Emma 3 Daughter Scholar Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire 3 Pratt Street, Newcastle Under Lyme RG12/2150/F? CD1 R12_2150.pdf p.97
Birch Hilda 1 Daughter Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire 3 Pratt Street, Newcastle Under Lyme

[thickoeric]

Hi, Craft, You're doing brilliantly. I've got the enlistment papers, thanks, from when he joined the East Yorkshire Regiment but I'm chuffed you've looked on the 1911 census as his wife was indeed Rosanna and the James Henry was my dad. They then had 2 girls, Ivy and Elsie.

As you say, I also reckon he joined the Royal Artillery so he could have been anywhere in 1891.

Gotta sign off for now as going to see my sister (and can tell her about developments!).

[craft1948]

er no Eric he wasn't anywhere......he was at home with his family as shown above........

[dothawkes31]

Well done Craft!!! That poor mother had so many children!!!! Two are missing and so maybe they lost Peter and Jesse between 1881 and 1891, from the 1881 and 1891 listings she had 13 children, what a family and they did well to have so many survive.
On the 1881 Hannah Johnson Birch is 16 and on the 1891 Annie is 18, would this be the same daughter? What a fascinating family anyway.

[craft1948]

for some reason dot the only site I could find them on was thegenealogist........

[dothawkes31]

Craft did you have to really search for that entry or were they exactly where they should have been on the surname index?

[craft1948]

dot I searched all over in ancestry and couldn't find him.........I don't often use the genealogist but when I put his name in he came up straight away as the only Paul Birch in the 1891 census...........