ChatterBank2 mins ago
Anyone See Reggie Yates' "men At War" Last Night?
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Has feminism gone to far? Some loonies as expected on the program but I thought some good points were made. Are young straight men one of the few groups it's ok to denigrate?
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yes I saw the first one. Mostly extremists like that guy who lives in Poland giving lectures etc, complete nutter. The 18 YO sadly misguided and picking up his views from others. He may get good though, for 18 he was a every erudite speaker even if the content was a bit silly. The good points where that, the world is full of women's associations for this and that but we all know if there was a man's version there'd be hell to pay. Also someone touched on the battered husbands area never being taken seriously and that is true. Anyone know what was removed?
I would argue that the very existence of some of the people and views portrayed in this video suggests that feminism hasn't yet gone far enough, if anything. I'd hope that most people would be very uncomfortable to learn that there are still people thinking in that manner.
I'll answer the rest of your points later, in terms of the male-only organisations etc.
I'll answer the rest of your points later, in terms of the male-only organisations etc.
Occurred to me that I didn't yet answer the other questions.
Anyway -- I think on the domestic violence issue that it's still not taken entirely seriously no matter who is the victim. There's been a lot of focus on women as victims because they do make up the overwhelming majority, but attitudes across the board still need to change. I'm not sure then that it's a problem suffered particularly by men, although male victims of abusive relationships will still need care. Seems to me that the problem is that those who do speak about men as victims of domestic abuse often do so as if the problems faced by women are "sorted now", or at least no longer as important to focus on. This may not be the message they want to pass on but it's still something to watch out for.
For the rest of it, I'm not sure that men's societies would be as much of a problem as you think, in theory at least. But in practice it seems that the sort of men who actually bother to set up men's societies are the sort you saw rather a lot of in the programme -- lots of overt sexism, misogyny and unpleasant attitudes that don't really do the idea of men's societies much credit. If a bunch of men, or boys, want to gather together for a lad's night out then that's entirely their choice and you'll probably find that the more mainstream feminist would not have a problem with that.
Which I suppose brings me to the last point I want to make, which is that a question like "has feminism gone to [sic] far?" lumps a whole spectrum of views together that should be kept separate. Feminists include, inevitably, a small but vocal section of women who are misandrists -- the "feminazis" -- but to lump them in with the majority would be as mistaken as assuming that Roosh V spoke for all, or even most, men.
Anyway -- I think on the domestic violence issue that it's still not taken entirely seriously no matter who is the victim. There's been a lot of focus on women as victims because they do make up the overwhelming majority, but attitudes across the board still need to change. I'm not sure then that it's a problem suffered particularly by men, although male victims of abusive relationships will still need care. Seems to me that the problem is that those who do speak about men as victims of domestic abuse often do so as if the problems faced by women are "sorted now", or at least no longer as important to focus on. This may not be the message they want to pass on but it's still something to watch out for.
For the rest of it, I'm not sure that men's societies would be as much of a problem as you think, in theory at least. But in practice it seems that the sort of men who actually bother to set up men's societies are the sort you saw rather a lot of in the programme -- lots of overt sexism, misogyny and unpleasant attitudes that don't really do the idea of men's societies much credit. If a bunch of men, or boys, want to gather together for a lad's night out then that's entirely their choice and you'll probably find that the more mainstream feminist would not have a problem with that.
Which I suppose brings me to the last point I want to make, which is that a question like "has feminism gone to [sic] far?" lumps a whole spectrum of views together that should be kept separate. Feminists include, inevitably, a small but vocal section of women who are misandrists -- the "feminazis" -- but to lump them in with the majority would be as mistaken as assuming that Roosh V spoke for all, or even most, men.
right so why have the UN not created the male equivalent of this:
http://
"The United Nations Entity for Gender Equality and the Empowerment of Men" - can you imagine the uproar!
http://
"The United Nations Entity for Gender Equality and the Empowerment of Men" - can you imagine the uproar!
An official body to promote men and bring them up to equality? The problem with that, though, is that the bodies that represent women, LGBT, etc etc are trying to establish equality with men. If you accept that, for a large part of history, people who (in this country, as an example) were not white and male tended to suffer because of it, and you further accept that the situation hasn't yet reached equality (which it hasn't) then it follows that men don't even need such a body. So of course there'd be an uproar -- because, at the moment, it's largely un-necessary, so introducing it would only make sense if on a global scales the tables have turned massively in favour of non-white non-heterosexual non-men. And they haven't so it doesn't.
This is not to say that, in the face of the massive recent social changes, some men haven't quite figured out how to respond, need some support, and turn to the wrong role models. But there is, to me at least, no sign that such men need to fight for their equality against centuries of inbuilt societal oppression, in quite the same way as has been true of women.
This is not to say that, in the face of the massive recent social changes, some men haven't quite figured out how to respond, need some support, and turn to the wrong role models. But there is, to me at least, no sign that such men need to fight for their equality against centuries of inbuilt societal oppression, in quite the same way as has been true of women.
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