Queen Elizabeth Iii?

[smurfchops]

The first Queen Elizabeth was the daughter of Henry VIII. The second Queen Elizabeth was the Queen Mother. So why is our Queen, Elizabeth the Second, and not the Third?

[NoMercy]

QEII 's mother was Queen Consort

[Jackdaw33]

Only reigning monarchs have regnal numbers. The Queen Mother was not a reigning monarch.

[ubasses]

Queen Mother was not The Queen, she was Queen Consort

[fiction-factory]

Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother had that title as the wife of the King. She was not the reigning monarch

[Jackdaw33]

A lot of people have difficulty in distinguishing between a queen regnant and a queen consort.

[NoMercy]

But not you, Jack.

[Jackdaw33]

In any case, there were two queen consorts before Elizabeth I: Elizabeth Woodville, wife of Edward IV, and Elizabeth of York, wife of Henry VII.

[NoMercy]

That doesn't excuse the woman that we of today knew as "The Queen Mother" of being Queen Consort.

Indeed she was referred to as such countless times during her life, and posthumously, variously by tabloids, history books and other publications.

[Jackdaw33]

I'm not saying it does. What I am saying is that there have been 5 Queen Elizabeths, of whom only 2 were reigning monarchs.

[Tuvok]

Technically she's QE1 of Scotland.

[Jackdaw33]

Technically not. It was decided at the accession of Edward VII that if there was a discrepancy in the numbering of monarchs of England and Scotland before the Act of Union the higher number would prevail. Thus although there have been only two kings of England named James, should another come to the throne he will be styled James VIII and not III.

[mikey4444]

As I recall, the term "Queen Mother" was only invented after Queen Mary had died.....but I am quite prepared to be challenged on that !

[Jackdaw33]

Challenge accepted. The mother of the reigning sovereign has always been called the queen mother though none have adopted it as part of their official title, preferring to be known simply as Queen X. The adoption of the title by Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon was purely to distinguish her from her daughter.

The last century saw three queen mothers: Alexandra, Mary and Elizabeth. Prior to that you have to go back to 1660 and Henrietta Marie of France, mother of Charles II.

[Jackdaw33]

Widowed queens who are not the mother of the sovereign are properly styled dowager queens (e.g. Queen Adelaide).

[Hopkirk]

Are you sure about the timing of the decision about numbering monarchs, Jackdaw? You say it was at the accession of Edward VII.
However I remember hearing on QI with Stephen Fry that it was at the time of Elizabeth's accession.

Some Scottish were refusing to accept QE2, and were vandalising post boxes with that on it. Apparently Winston Churchill found the way out by bringing in the new numbering system.

[Jackdaw33]

You may well be right. The issue has only arisen three times, with William IV, Edward VII and Elizabeth II.

[ToraToraTora]

as above the queen mum was a consort. As will be Queen Camilla.

[Barmaid]

I understood that the title of queen mother was invented by Margaret Beaufort who was Henry vii's mum. Albeit rarely used.

[Quizmonster]

My cousin, a Scot, was a junior officer and doctor in the Army whilst on National Service. During dinners in the Officers' Mess, such an officer was always appointed to propose the loyal toast.
My cousin did not want to perform this duty and made it clear that, if he was told to, he would get to his feet and say, "Gentlemen, Queen Elizabeth the First", which is what she actually was - and is - in terms of British history. The "higher number" shenanigans may alter that legally but do not do so in reality.