Brexit = Appease The Nazis?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-40605363/lord-adonis-leaving-the-eu-will-impoverish-millions
Right oh M'Lud! They really don't like will of the majority do they!

[Bazile]

Who are the ' they ' ?

[Zacs-Master]

Your title infers that Brexit will have some direct connection with the Nazis. You really should write headlInes for the DM, Tora.

[albaqwerty]

I presume you mean the Labour Party 3T?
The SNiP don't like the majority vote either.

Folk have voted, fgs, just get on with it!

Didn't the UK do OK before being saddled with the EU?

[douglas9401]

For 'the majority' read 'a small majority'.

[ToraToraTora]

just quoting from the link fellas.

[jim360]

And for EU read "EUSSR", which according to some is a totally fair comparison to make, while the other way round isn't. If only there were a word for that.

[ichkeria]

You'll still be repeating "will of the majority" "will of the majority" as the last foreign bank leaves Britain, the UK's growth rate continues to languish in 28th place out of 28 EU countries, David Davis continues to grin inanely and proclaim "I remain optimistic" as M Barnier and others look on in disbelief.
What is going to happen in March 2019? No one seriously believes the process will have ended by then.
I don't know about Chamberlain in 1938, but this is a wrong step, but it will take politicians of greater honesty and stature than we currently seem to possess, on all sides, to admit it.

[ToraToraTora]

I work in a foreign bank ichy. No sign of it moving yet! They'll all be here once we offer them a better deal than the EU. Just a question of breaking the shackles from the EUSSR.

[Peter Pedant]

// Your title infers that Brexit will have some direct connection with the Nazis.//
the unfortuately named Lord Adonis said that Brexit IHO was as bad a mistake as appeasement in the thirties

3T has done an AOG make over on title and content

Brexit apologist = swivel eyed loon ?

as far as AB goes - that is a certain yes
or as 3T might say - right ooooooh!

[ToraToraTora]

"Adonis, has said he stands by remarks he made in an interview, in which he said Brexit was as big a step for Britain as the decision to appease the Nazis in the 1930s. " - From the link PP, do have a go at reading it.

[Mamyalynne]

He chose the words to use in his analogy and he stands by them.

//The government advisor on infrastructure said that he could only think of two things as historically and "potentially as damaging" as Brexit, the Suez Crisis and appeasement in the 1930s which was "calamitous for us as a country."

Lord Adonis said that Brexit could be just as calamitous but "in a very different way"//

Whether we think they were a wise choice is neither here nor there.

[youngmafbog]

Well there is no connection between the two things other than they are/were major decisions. So from that point of view I guess he is right. Of course he used the comparison to stoke project fear 2 as there are other decision in history he could have used to demonstrate the point which would not have other connotations.

[ToraToraTora]

let us not forget though that TGM wanted to deal with the Nazi's much earlier only to be thwarted by the the Liberals. Could have sorted it in 1932.

[jim360]

Not quite sure what the point of sorting the Nazis out in 1932 would have been, as they weren't in power then; von Papen was, and remained so until 1933.

But anyway, from about 1925 until late 1939 Churchill (TGM = The Great Man? a pretty accurate if typically obfuscating acronym, if so) was essentially an irrelevance in politics, so not really sure that it would have mattered if he'd wanted to sort the Nazis out or invite them for a slap-up dinner. More's the pity. Also he was thwarted by the Conservatives, was he not? Chamberlain and, to a lesser extent, were not what you might call Liberal Lefties, and they were the ones who led appeasement. Oh, and Halifax (Conservative).

Most of the critique of this policy came from the Left, although that might have had rather a lot to do with a "anything but Stalin" stance from the principal "appeasers"...

[ToraToraTora]

yes he was irrelevant in 1932/3 that's the point he was labelled the mad man for warning and wanting to prevent Germany arming early, nip it in the bud so to speak. Of course he was dismissed by the right on brigade. until later when they needed him to save their cosy little lives.

[jim360]

I'm just amused by the Tories of the mid '30s being called the "right on brigade" when that's also the label you'd apply to actual left-wing politicians.

[ToraToraTora]

Chamberlainistas jim!

[jim360]

Fair enough. Chamberlain gets a bad rep and deservedly so, but to be fair to him I think a great many people were fooled by Hitler and too afraid of war to see the true danger.

Plus, there's always yet another stirring quote of Churchill's:

"It fell to Neville Chamberlain in one of the supreme crises of the world to be contradicted by events, to be disappointed in his hopes, and to be deceived and cheated by a wicked man. But what were these hopes in which he was disappointed? What were these wishes in which he was frustrated? What was that faith that was abused? They were surely among the most noble and benevolent instincts of the human heart -- the love of peace, the toil for peace, the strife for peace, the pursuit of peace, even at great peril, and certainly to the utter disdain of popularity or clamour. Whatever else history may or may not say about these terrible, tremendous years, we can be sure that Neville Chamberlain acted with perfect sincerity according to his lights and strove to the utmost of his capacity and authority, which were powerful, to save the world from the awful, devastating struggle in which we are now engaged."

Perhaps the context of his recent passing shackled Churchill to good manners, but there you are. I guess you could argue that Chamberlain was horribly wrong for the right reasons.

[ToraToraTora]

TGM was famously empathetic and I have no doubt meant those sentiments sincerely but all of history before that must have shown MrC that appeasement never works, all it does is move the line closer to your front door. TGM himself said so better than I ever could.

[EDDIE51]

^ Yet again I find myself compelled to say ''Well, said Jim''
A well thought out counterpoint to TTT's rant !