The Easily Pursuded Obnoxious Mob Syndrome.

[Theland]

There are many examples of mobs being easily persuaded to protest about anything at the drop of a hat.
Not many seem to investigate the finer details of what that are protesting about.
Their numbers are always alarming, and their antics socially disruptive.
Climate Change, Extinction Rebellion, Leave or Remain, Institutional Racism, Trans Rights, and numerous others making demands on the majority to fix the alleged problems of the minority.
No question as such, but an invitation to identify a mob and comment on it.

[Mamyalynne]

Thank you for seeing that.

Yes in areas institutional discrimination still goes on, maybe one day it will be a rarity.

[tonyav]

C'mon Theland, you worked in industry as I do, you've seen it just as much ( probably as I have over the years ) Alf Garnet was a very much watered down version of some of the blokes that I have worked with over the years.

[pixie374]

Quite probably, yes. If individuals are still racist, it makes sense to believe that they will still be, even in large groups.
We know that non-white people and female people are still very unrepresented in public life. I asked this to another ABer, but got no answer... so, why do you think, theland? Are those people just less capable, or are they not given as many fair chances?

[Theland]

Tonyav When I started in industry, pin ups were common.
The office in the shipyard looked like a teaching aid for gynaecology.
Slowly but surely things changed and are still changing.
Women are more empowered and thank goodness for that.
Societal pressure and norms have thankfully moved on.
I applaud it.

[Theland]

Pixie - We should aim for a meritocracy.
Best person for the job.
That's my opinion.
I object to positive discrimination where minorities are given a head start over the majority because of their skin colour or sexuality.m

[beso]

Theland //For example, Trump is hated, yet kept every single election promise.//

You are a fool. He lied and lied and lied.

[Theland]

Beso - Trump promised to reduce unemployment. He did.
Created mor jobs especially for Afro Americans.
Increased wages for Afro Americans by over $1000 a year.
Pulled out of the Iran deal.
Supported Israel and moved the embassy to Jerusalem.
Much more as you know.m

[pixie374]

So do I, theland... but I also object when anybody non-white or female is given a job, award, etc... and it is assumed that it is because of their colour or sex. As if the only proper people who are capable, are white men.
As they are still over-represented so much, it is fair to say that either... they are vastly superior to everyone else... or they are getting better discrimination still.
Which do you think it is?

[Theland]

A difficult one.
Double blind applications would help.
Better education for middle managers.

[pixie374]

I'm sure you realise, theland, that the only reason it is so unbalanced now, is that anyone white and male has always been the "preference". And they are mostly the people in positions of power.
In spite of knowing this for decades, they have decided not to change this and give others the same opportunities.
What is your advice, on making things fairer, so that nobody has positive or negative discrimination, but genuinely have equal chances?

[Theland]

Let's look at some of the failed attempts at solutions.
BBC forbid white male applicants for internships.
Police refused applications from white males,(Cheshire, but probably more widespread.)
Sadiq Khan set up interview panels to screen applicants for the police, obviously had to be PC. Just the tip of the iceberg.

[pixie374]

That might show how difficult it is, for people to change their general attitudes, but what would your solution be? We need to be firmer? Or are you not bothered?

[Old_Geezer]

"As they are still over-represented so much, it is fair to say that either... they are vastly superior to everyone else... or they are getting better discrimination still.
Which do you think it is?"

Maybe fewer of some sections of the community try for such positions, or are up to it. Maybe it's a confidence thing, or maybe an attitude of not having made the most of educational opportunities, or them not being available. It's all too easy to assume bias by employers, and for some to support discrimination, whilst being in denial and claiming they aren't in favour. There is no such thing as "positive discrimination", that's an excuse. There is simply valid/appropriate and invalid/inappropriate discrimination.

[jim360]

//For example, Trump is hated, yet kept every single election promise.//

It's ridiculously easy to prove that Trump has either broken or, at least, not kept several of his election promises. Case in point:

"On day one I will immediately repeal and replace ObamaCare". He did not (and indeed still hasn't).

[Spicerack]

nailit
//People dont go out at the drop of a hat to protest.//

[Theland]

Jim - Obamacare - I think congress has shackled him.

Spicerack - A good example.

[douglas9401]

I admire your tenacity, Jim, but you're up against it here.

Good luck, I couldn't be harrassed with trading blows with farkwits and ghost believers.

[jim360]

// Jim - Obamacare - I think congress has shackled him.//

It didn't have to. If he'd done it as early as he'd promised then he had Congress on his side. Since 2018, for sure, it's become impossible.

A separate failed promise, and a sadder one, is that he was promising to invest massively in the USA's crumbling infrastructure. I think he'd have had support from that across the board, although it's possible that he's simply been distracted.

In any case, my point is merely that it's silly to proclaim that Trump has kept "very single promise" when he clearly hasn't. Even if you like the guy you may as well concede that point -- it really shouldn't affect your opinion of him to set a standard slightly lower than literal perfection.

[jim360]

Democrat* president, and I'll make no such concession, but such things are political judgements.