Ragged Trousered Philanthropist.

[Theland]

In the society described in the Ragged Trousered Philanthropist, what changes would you have recommended to improve the lot of the workers suffering such penury?

[woofgang]

Theland I have been poor and my parents were poorer when they were children. Same with my late husband and his family. Every penny that I and my siblings have was a result of hard work. We were given nothing. I am not sure who you think is in an ivory tower on here but its not me.

[naomi24]

He wouldn’t have found any in communist Russia either, Woofgang.
All he’d have needed would have been a bucket to haul his water from a well and a few bob to bribe the doctor for medicine for his sick children. There was little else to spend money on.

[woofgang]

oh look I have BA

[Theland]

Wolf, I too know what poverty is.
I did OK by being lucky enough to get an apprenticeship, good paying jobs were the result.
My brother, on the other hand, worked hard, but on low paying jobs, and three times when he got a decent job, he was unfortunate by being made redundant three times.
He kept on working and still does, emptying bins.
His life has been hard, but he has been a good Dad to his three children.
He still still lives in poverty.

[naomi24]

//I too know what poverty is. //

I expect many of us do, Theland. You're not unique.

That said, if you think what you've seen in this country is poverty, you've never seen poverty.

[Mamyalynne]

Disappointing to see that the average wage for a refuse collector is hovering just above the minimum wage (plus bonus) for such an important job, but is that how you are defining poverty today Theland?

[Theland]

Poverty is relative.

Naomi is right. True poverty is well documented in other countries. Hunger, disease etc. But I don't need educating on this thank you Naomi.

Mamya, having running water and an indoor toilet does not equate to wealth, and it is a question of disposable income once the bills are paid.
Naomi makes it sound like everybody on lower incomes should give thanks to the rich for the crumbs dropped off the table.

[Mamyalynne]

I didn't mention wealth but you mentioned poverty.

If you wish to skirt the issue I'll leave it.

[Theland]

What about nurses?
All they have had in return for a real term cut in their wages of 14% since 2010, is clapping on Thursday night.
Will the rich scream at an increase in their taxes to fund a pay rise for nurses?
Of course they will.
''I'm alright Jack.''

[Theland]

No not skirting it.
Ask a specific question maybe?

[Mamyalynne]

Having been broght up in a poor but hard working family I never felt I was living in poverty - we were fed had clean clothes and though our shoes often pinched we usually had new ones each school term, before I left to get married we had been on 2 family holidays, both to Wales.

Very little to spare at all.

Poverty to me is not having the wherewithal to have a decent roof over your head,warmth when needed and food in your belly.

[Mamyalynne]

So no question, just my take on poverty, straightforward - I can't do with all this dancing around - Goodnight.

[Theland]

No dancing from me Mamya.
Your childhood reflects mine very well.

[naomi24]

Theland, //Naomi makes it sound like everybody on lower incomes should give thanks to the rich for the crumbs dropped off the table.//

Give examples - or stop insulting me.

New shoes, Theland? Goodness! What were they? Best you keep quiet about the woes of your childhood. In competition you would lose - I guarantee it.

[Theland]

Nobody is insulting you.
Don't be so thin skinned, and stop making this into a competition to tell the best story.
Its not impressive.

[naomi24]

Not good enough, Theland. Put your money where your mouth is because I’m getting a bit sick of this from you. I told you yesterday to stop telling lies about me. Where have I given you the impression that //everybody on lower incomes should give thanks to the rich for the crumbs dropped off the table.//?

//stop making this into a competition to tell the best story.//

That has to be the best of your jokes so far! We get endless winging from you about your poverty, your struggles, the hardship your children suffer, your magnificent altruism in the face of all this despondency - and yesterday we were treated to your poverty-stricken brother’s biography. Without giving details, I suggest that in competition you would lose, and suddenly I’m attempting to tell the best story? Get a grip, Theland. I’ve told no story.

[naomi24]

*whinging* - but *winging* works just as well.

[Theland]

I've told no lies.
Your attitude towards the poor is lamentable, as is your cheer leading for the rich, the super rich, the billionaires, and the establishment generally.
Yes I know poverty as a child, but never since, and these days I am comfortable with my pension.
Don't attack me for helping out others in their need.

[naomi24]

Theland, //Yes I know poverty as a child, but never since, and these days I am comfortable with my pension.//

Mmmmm … curious. So when you said on these pages //i live in poverty. using a borrowed computer to play here. reality is so so harsh //

…you weren’t lying. Right….

You have no idea of my attitude to poverty. Only to lame ducks and wasters who expect the world to owe them a living and will take all they can get.

[Theland]

Yes I did use a borrowed computer.
As to everything else, I've told no lies, there have been quite a few difficulties over the last few years.
But hey!
This is not a cross examination, and I feel no compulsion to justify any of my statements to you.