Should We Create A Third Gender?

[naomi24]

Given all the controversy over the transgender issue and whether or not men who self-identify as women should be allowed to use women’s facilities, should we establish an accepted third gender as I believe some other countries have, and allocate those people separate spaces?

[pixie374]

Ha :-)

[Ellipsis]

> So, why do you want to go back to stereotypes?

I don't think you're reading what I'm writing. I think instead you're making assumptions about what I mean.

> What do you really want?

For the world to be a better place for women, for men, for everyone ...

[Khandro]

Ellipsis //What do you really want?

For the world to be a better place for women, for men, for everyone ...//

That is what all the world's dictators have always shouted, Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao et al.
What you espouse is an IDEOLOGY, if anyone is looking backwards it is you old son.
There are many problems in this world is facing & which need sorting out, transgender issues are rather low on the list.

[Ellipsis]

Private toilets is an ideology worthy of comparison to Hitler? LOL. I can see I'm peeing in the wind here ... Godwin's Law has been invoked!

[naomi24]

The argument about the whys and wherefores does nothing to address the problem. The fact is there are people who want to be identified in whichever way they choose. Those people then fit into neither of the standard categories - ie male or female - but nevertheless wish to be treated as male or female - which realistically just isn’t viable, not only because they are not what they claim to be, but more importantly in some instances the choices they make and the expectations they have have been demonstrated to prove dangerous to them and to others. If we want to accommodate their foibles we have to find a solution - and treating them as ‘men’ or ‘women’ isn’t it - because they’re not.

As an aside, not only am I appalled that in sport, men are being allowed to compete in women’s events as women, but I was quite shocked to read here that crimes committed by trans women are added to female statistics. Whatever these people want or demand that simply cannot be right.

[roadman]

"does nothing to address the problem"

What is "the problem" and who's problem is it?

[naomi24]

It seems to me it's society's problem. What do you think, roadman?

[roadman]

Seems like you're the one with the problem. I've got no issue.

[roadman]

And is pixie still banging on about Criminal trans people? Does she know not all trans are criminals yet she's using only the statistics of the criminals to judge the entire community

it's like using statistics about men or women only from prisons. It's a dumb idea because not everyone has a criminal mindset.

it's actually incredibly offensive

[jim360]

One other issue is the framing of the discussion. By referring to trans people using such words as "wishes", "foibles", "choices", etc., it betrays a lack of understanding of transgender people and what makes them trans in the first place. It seems to me that it would be better to start by addressing that, and by trying, sincerely, to understand transgender people rather than write them off as if they were acting on a whim.

[naomi24]

roadman, you really don't see the unfair advantage that men competing in women's sport have over their rivals? That makes no sense at all - or do you just not want to see it?

Pixie isn't doing that.

[naomi24]

Jim, If I were writing them off I wouldn't be initiating threads to try to find a solution to their difficulties.

[roadman]

Naomi your post isn't about sports.

I think a male is more likely to assault a trans woman than a trans man is to assault a woman.

I think it's more dangerous for a transman to be in the males than it would be for a transwoman to be in the females but Naomi and Pixie don't care about that because they can only think about themselves.

[jim360]

What I mean is that the impression you are giving off is that the difficulties that transpeople face are, in effect, self-inflicted and by choice.

[naomi24]

Roadman, my post is about the whole situation and was instigated by a report of women in prison being attacked by trans people who had been accommodated with them - as women.

Jim, I think many of them do make a choice.

[Khandro]

jim; //What I mean is that the impression you are giving off is that the difficulties that transpeople face are, in effect, self-inflicted and by choice.//

I don't think that is what is being implied here, people are what they are & have to get on with it, but what is disagreeable is the demand by an extremely small group* that society should change quite drastically to accommodate their whims.

*Stonewall claims 1% of the population, but I'm certain that that is a large exaggeration of the true figure. The estimate in the US is 0.3%

[SparklyKid]

I get absolutely sick of these stupid modern ideas. Some parents have a child, do not reveal the sex and say, when the child is old enough let it decide what gender it wants to be.

Changing the nappy would be a huge clue.

[naomi24]

Sparkly, I think those people are doing untold damage to their children.

[SparklyKid]

Could not agree more naomi24

[roadman]

"Some parents have a child, do not reveal the sex and say, when the child is old enough let it decide what gender it wants to be."

I don't think that happens at all actually bud. for a start the sex is not the gender. parents wont deny the sex in which their child was born. What they might decide is instead of dressing it in pink or blue they choose yellow or green.

it doesnt damage the child in any way get educated before you spout this nonsense