What's It All About?

[Atheist]

Sorry for a dumb question, but can anyone explain to me what is the essence of the issue about the trans question? Why is Ms Rowling so passionate about it?

I hope for a calm explanation rather than an attack.

Here’s hoping...

[Ellipsis]

The sports issue:

Short term: mens and womens sports based on chromosomes.

Longer term: Expand trans men and trans women sport, using the model of disabled sport (e.g. Paralympics) as a model.
 

Male/female spaces:

Short term: male/female spaces based on physical needs (e.g. genitalia), not chromosomes and not mental needs.

Long term: no male/female spaces.  Just personal spaces.

-----------

It will take a while, especially globally ...

[naomi24]

What about the airbrushing of the words 'woman', 'women', 'mothers', etc?  How is that to be resolved to everyone's satisfaction?

[barry1010]

Would a trans person have to prove they've got the right genitals when they use a public loo, Ellipsis?

[barry1010]

Re public loos, I go to a shopping centre that has each toilet cubicle opening directly on to the concourse.  Each cubicle has a sink and sanitary bin.  Each cubicle can be used by anyone. I think that is a good solution for everyone's basic needs.

[Ellipsis]

> Would a trans person have to prove they've got the right genitals when they use a public loo, Ellipsis?

Nope, it's all based on trust, as it always has been.

Men can physically use women's toilets but most don't, as a rule. Likewise women can use the cubicles in men's toilets, but mostly don't (although I've seen it happen several times across my years).  I don't really think public toilets is the big problem, I think it's other male/female spaces.

[jackthehat]

As a woman I am prepared to concede that there are few, if any, sports where female physiology gives an advantage over men.

This is why men should compete against men and women should compete against women. If there could be a third 'open' category, where Trans identified people wanted to compete against each other, that would be fine.

Far too many girls and women are losing competing spaces, results and records to men who have self-identified into their sports.

[Ellipsis]

>  I think that is a good solution for everyone's basic needs.

Yes, that would be the ideal ("no male/female spaces.  Just personal spaces").

[jackthehat]

'Personal spaces' as described is a good idea but how practical would it be to retro-fit them into existing spaces?

Until such a time as they are available, it would be better that men use mens spaces and leave the women's spaces to women.

[davebro3]

Alfie ?

[barry1010]

My wife has used men's toilets when she's been desperate and the queue at the ladies is too long.

Nobody has objected.

[Rosetta]

Barry, if your older relatives are female, ask them whether they want men /trans  to come into their female only spaces like loos, or mixed wards in hospitals

[jackthehat]

barry - quite. So I wonder why Transwomen won't use them. Unless it's more about the need to invade women's spaces?

[barry1010]

As a father it was difficult when my daughters were young and out with me.

Should I take them in to the men's - which were often horrible, filthy places underground or the ladies? When they were tiny I just held them over the gutter (you rarely see this now but it wasn't unusual) but I did used to shout through the door of the ladies and ask if I could my little girl in.

[Ringlet]

As I understand it, the issue is that men who identify as women are given access to female spaces (eg changing rooms), thus putting females at risk of attack from SOME unscrupulous males who would exploit this opportunity for their own sexual gratification.  

[Ellipsis]

> As a father it was difficult when my daughters were young and out with me.

Yes, life is complicated and doesn't fit neatly into two boxes.  For example, a friend of mine had a disabled daughter, which meant that he (and his wife) had to take her to the toilet all through her childhood and into her adulthood,  until eventually the daughter had to go into a home because the parents were too old to manage ...

[Old_Geezer]

If you believe the sports issue is solved by having a 'trans' category; don't you need two ? One for males deluded into thinking they are females, and another for females deluded into thinking they're males. Otherwise gender fooling treatment will create advantages/disadvantages.

 

Society needs to treat those with this type of mental issue with those psychiatric practices known to help correct the malfunctioning thought processes.

 

(For those with certain spiritual beliefs, perhaps worth considering is that if a spiritual entity agrees to be born on Earth as human, for whatever aim, and opts for particular parents where the mother to be to gestating an offsping of particular sex, then that entity will have chosen that sex for a reason, and now they're here ought to accept and learn from it; not decide that they weren't that sex the last time, and aren't going to accept the situation. Don't feel you're 'abc' even though the evidence shows otherwise ? Then acknowledge that you're confused, and do what to can to live with the confusion.)

[jackthehat]

As a mother of a son, I also experienced difficulties when out shopping etc., and he needed to spend a penny.

However, these are entirely different scenarios issues those facing women at the moment. 

(fingers crossed this link works)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvMK0veXgAEWb4U?format=jpg&name=900x900

Anyone recognise the man in the pink coat in the queue for the ladies?

[barry1010]

My wife isn't fussed about trans women using the ladies toilets.  She says she never really notices other people in the toilet, she just wants to use the loo and the sink.  

She's an older woman.

[Arksided]

Formally Eddie Izzard I think, Forgetting what she calls herself these days... Sharon or something 

[barry1010]

Suzir Izzard, but he still calls himself Eddie professionally and has said several times he doesn't care whether people call him Eddie or Suzie, him or her, he or she.

Naomi, it's a bit different taking a girl in to the gents. Ladies toilets don't have urinals and when my children were small cottaging was still a thing in the gents.  Never knew what you might see in them