why is ther ill feeling re immigrants?

[informashun]

yesterday i went swimming in our local pool and paid the oap rrice of �1.40.
at 5.25 pm i was drying off and two young men came in to the room but was told by an attendant the pool was closed as childrens lessons start at 5.30.
one of the men said in pidgin english no problem produced a blue card and said they were kurds and didnt pay anyway.
i am a pensioner and after 50 years of working and paying many thousands of pound in tax etc. naturally felt miffed like so many would be, makes you think!

[allotment10]

saxy - i am neither racist , prejudiced or narrow minded, my father was in the army when i was younger and i have lived in many countries abroad so was virtually brought up in foreign countries, i was taught to respect thier beliefs and customs, and still do to this day, i have many friends in this country who have come from abroad, in fact my stepsons are married to woman both from other sides of the world!
i cannot seriously believe that you think we are bieng racist! the point of the matter is that the majority of people in this country go to work, pay thier taxes, pay NI stamps, pay the rent, mortgage,etc,even though they pay NI ,have to pay for dental treatment, glasses etc, and are left with not much more to indulge in swimming lessons or any other such luxuries,
like scuffscat & bigdogswang says (and i agree with them) ummm, why do they come here then? do you think its because no other country gives them what we give them ?

[saxy_jag]

not everyone who's an immigrant is freeloading (and yes, freeloaders are everywhere - even pensioners can be freeloaders). but most of you are assuming they all are. we have no right to judge for ourselves who is, and who isn't. that's done by the immigration appellate. if we judge immigrants to be freeloaders by dint of the fact that they are immigrants (which most of you seem to be doing), then that is racism, because racism is making negative assumptions based on preconceived, not necessarily accurate racial stereotypes.

and that's wrong.

and i'm not sorry for shouting.

[JFK]

I can sympathise with both points of view here. I think saxy_jag is right that racism does play a part - if they were, say, white students with a free swimming pass, I'm sure the poster would not have batted an eyelid. It's the fact they are Kurds that got him annoyed.

But the government is definitely too soft on the benefits system in my opinion, both to immigrants and British-born citizens, which is why a large number of people bypass numerous other EU countries for the UK. This causes resentment of immigrants who are only looking for the best possible life for their family, same as everyone else.

[allotment10]

true JFK, think this debate could go on forever, & everyone has a right to thier own opinions , so i'll sign off from this thread. :-)

[flip-flop]

How else are you meant to describe Kurds other than Kurds? How else are you meant to describe Poles other than Poles? How else are you meant to describe Africans other than Africans? How else are you meant to describe the Welsh other than The Welsh? I could go on all day, but you can see where I'm going with this................................describing Kurds as Kurds is not racism - and when racism is brought into a discussion when it is quite apparent no racism existed it just shows a flawed argument and an element of straw grasping because you feel people will shy away from continuing the debate for fear of being branded a racist.

We have a woman in our office who is forever seeing sexism where it doesn't exist. Same thing.

[allotment10]

if saxy wants to call me a racist thats up to her, i couldn't care wether she thinks i am or not, the point of the matter is not colour, religion or nationality.
as the poster said, he/she has worked hard for many years but still has to pay for thier swimming lessons,
can saxy explain to me why a person goes to work , retires or whatever, needs new glasses, dental treatment or a prescription but still has to pay for that privilage ? whereas someone who has never worked can walk into the chemist, get a list of medication or have dental treatment all paid for by the working people of this country, wether they are kurds, indians, english or whatever, that is the point we are making saxy, nothing at all to do with whatever nationality they are!!

[saxy_jag]

I appreciate what you're saying here, flip-flop. It's quite fair to describe someone in terms of their nationality or race, especially if they have stated it. What I meant was that, if race wasn't an issue, then why is there a need to mention it at all? If Informashun's issue is that some people don't work/pay taxes and get everything free whilst others do work honestly and don't, then it shouldn't matter a fig whether they're Kurdish, Welsh or whatever.

There's a bloke down the road with ten kids who's on the dole and hasn't worked a single day in his life. He has two council houses knocked through and takes everything the state will give him, without doing a thing for anyone else. And he boasts about that. He's not disabled - he's just a lazy, scrounging bully who won't even let his wife get a job. Where he's from is neither here nor there. I'm complaining about him because of what he's like, not assuming he's that way because he's ___ish.

And it's not a matter of seeing an 'ism' where it doesn't exist. I get just as annoyed by people like the woman in your office as anyone else. I used to be just as ignorant as some of the posters here, but over the years, I've learnt better. It's not nice to be accused of using racist talk, and most people will deny it to begin with - I know I did. It took others to point out the sheer stupidity, sometimes, of what I was saying.

[saxy_jag]

Allotment, everyone is means tested when it comes to getting free treatment/prescriptions/benefits etc. I work, pay taxes and, even though I don't earn very much, still have to pay for those things. I daresay when these people have residency permits, they will go out and get jobs and start paying towards your state pension, just the same as I do. I don't like the idea of supporting someone with an attitude like yours, but that's how the welfare state works - we all help one another. Or not, it would seem.

Like you say, it's up to me whether I describe you (or rather, your posts) as racist, so I do. You won't change that. Clearly you have a right to your opinion, so I'll let you have it. But I really do feel sorry for you.

[allotment10]

thanks for feeling sorry for me, there's no reason why you should, after all we're the silly bu**ers going to work to pay for them all. like you say you have your opinion and i have mine, i won't turn this into an argument and throwing insults at people as to my attitude doesn't make an inkling of difference, you were the one who started it all by saying you thought we were all narrow minded racists. if thats how you want to think then thats up to you.

[saxy_jag]

Sure is. ;-)

[Ginger30]

support saxy_jag here. Ever wonder how this 'tiny' island's managed to get the 5th largest economy in the world? Read a little history (not the stuff written by the Brits) and then figure the irony of us bemoning those who flee from the very countries upon which we built (and still reap) our wealth ...