The Downhill Path

[Hugh Spencer]

Can I believe my eyes this morning when I read that some prisoners are going to be given keys for their convenience? Not only are the relevant ministers to blame for the many, many stupid things which are ordered onto place but many government officials are equally responsible for not strangling the ideas at birth. Do the public realise that THEIR country is continually being handed over to others who are not elected by us to do as they please. I once thought that the Conservative party were intending to restrict the EU in our affairs but from what I can gather they and the other two main parties are all going to do the same. What are you going to do at the next General Election, vote for the party you always vote for and witness YOUR country end up in a desperate, situation, being run by people who are not accountable to the British public? I implore everybody to wake up and find out was is really happening and that goes for our local MP's, too.

[Lonnie]

Can't disagree with anything you've said, its just another nail in the coffin of our once geat and beautiful country.

[matty1]

The way the govenment is going not only do we live in a nanny state but we will become a member of the united states of europe. In the last election i voted for the tories but the way things are looking in the next elections ukip does look apealing.

[Hugh Spencer]

How much more proof do you need? Yesterday 150 police from Belgium, France, Italy and Luxembourg raided houses, banks, companies and European Commission officials to uncover fraud, deceit and corruption in financial and contract deals. Two Italian MP's are at the centre of a 3 year investigation concerning corruption.Aren't we better out of all this?

[Hugh Spencer]

On Tuesday three Italians were charged with EU fraud, a scandal whiuch involved bribes of millions of euros for more than 10 years. Bank accounts were seized in Belgium and Luxembourg. Where will it all end up?

[jno]

there's never been theft or corruption in Britain, then? Wonderful!

[Hugh Spencer]

Come on jno, get real! That latest snippet of information joins many others showing how dreadful the running of the club is that we are expected to become more integretated with. If you vote Labour at the next election you are helping to maintain the status quo - billions of �'s being wasted by cheats in Europe.

[jake-the-peg]

So Hugh - if the police raid fraudsters and start to prosecute frauds - that's bad news?

I get the distinct feeling that anything European is bad in your book! - well that's OK we have a democracy please vote UKIP - Really, please do especially if you live in a Tory marginal, actually if you live in any marginal - I mean you won't be robbing Gordon Brown of a valuable vote will you?

[Hugh Spencer]

OK, jake-the-peg, if you are content to tolerate the lies of politicians in matters which are very important to the integrity of this country. I am of an age when I was proud to be British and agreed with most of the activities of Parliament. People were encouraged to be responsible for their actions, and a strength of character to be admired. During WW2 there were spivs and I think there many spivs in Government. They are in power and they have found they can get away with anything, they have no real conscience. I can see, that no matter what, the present situation is quite acceptable to you. God help us!

[jake-the-peg]

Great idea, lets wrap ourselves up in the flag and let all those nasty foreigners go and do their own thing.

Tell you what lets bring back feet and inches, shillings and guineas and live out our lives dreaming of a golden age that only ever existed in our immaginations.

Proud to be British? - what a fool!! National pride has always been the tool of the recruiting sargeant now it's the tool of those who are frightened of change and the power and influence they'll lose.

The last refuge of the scoudrell all right as true today as it was in Johnson's time

[Hugh Spencer]

It is obvious that British heritage accounts for little in jake-the-peg's reasoning. Let's all push for all the anti-British adeas eminating from Europe - let's become a state of Europe. Change - oh, yes I want changes, lots of them. What about changes in attitude towards:
1. OAP's, giving them a reasonable basic pension
2. Freight drivers who hardly know how to survive under the punitive petrol tax - and don't mention the effects they have on the natural increase in global warming
3. Medical staff, let them run the Health Service
4. Education staff, let them run the Education Service
5. Military commanders, let them decide what equipment is needed and what size their force should be.
Do you want to hear any more?

[jake-the-peg]

Natural Global warming ???

You're great can I take you home and frame you?

You probably believe Durkin's "Great Global Warming Debarcle"

The man who used out of date data because the official ones were too wiggly

You do know that the last time he made a program for C4 they ended up making a long on-air apology don't you?

And looks like they'll be doing it again given the scientists coming forward to say they were misrepresented.

Still I'm sure you know better than all those people, how was the department of climateology at the University of life?

[dancunian]

Hugh,

Not to want to raise your blood pressure any higher than it already is, but your arguments would be more credible if you could given an explanation as to why (the vast majority of) the people elected to ensure the nations best interests do exactly the opposite,

One might also asy that if you know better, than your patriotic fervour would surely be better spent in public service representing this country and not wasted on people like me on the internet.

[Hugh Spencer]

Hi dancunian,
If you are asking me why elected people do exactly the opposite when in power, then either they have not researched the problems before agreeing to sort them or, which is most likely, they tell the people in the pre-election time what they want to hear, hoping to get their votes then adopting a different attitude when in power.
I am too old in the tooth to re-enter public service, having spent 40 years in the teaching profession. It has been only relatively lately discovering the fraud, deceit and unaccountability of the EU that has stirred me to ask continually, why must we still belong because we won't be able to change things from within. I hope that answers your questions.

[dancunian]

Hugh

I still dont know what the need for the deceipt is?

Why adopt a "different attitude when in power"

Dont politicians have to get re-elected at some point?

Wouldn't it make more sense to carry out a manifesto promise as a result, for example?

Incidentally none of the major parties beleive in leaving the European Union. If the UK political arena was a fraud-free environment it would be more likely that we could throw these stones out of our glass house, no?

Fraud stories are very occasional. Why not get hot under the collar about some genuine injustices in the world - injustices that might actually have a chance of being attacked if we aattack them as as Union of nations with the same priorities.

[Hugh Spencer]

Career politicians delight in having power over others and many, including some of the Cabinet, know they can make a name for themselves with a view to cashing in on other opportunities should they not be re-elected. Secondly, the Conservative Party, at one time, were going to re-negotiate Britain's membership of the EU but that idea has been dropped. The UKIP is the fourth largest political party, maybe a minority party at the moment, but watch how the membership grows in the coming months. Thirdly, there are many injustices in the world but at the moment I can see that many of the qualities that British people valued in the past are being changed and it is going to have an adverse effect on my daughter, granddaughters and great grandson and great granddaughter, newly born.

[dancunian]

Hi Hugh

In 2004 UKIP membership was 27,000 , recent count was about 17,000.

And that was before the various allegations of financial irregularities and fraud made against UKIP and their elected representatives.

And UKIP officaials donating to the BNP....

And before also UKIP began welcoming out-and-out racists into the fold:

http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/news/headlin es/display.var.1148016.0.race_row_tory_joins_u kip.php
John Major signed the treaty of Maastricht which you oppose. I think it unlikely he did this simply for a potential carrer opportunity for fellow conservatives he didnt even like, especially at the amount of money you mention.

[Hugh Spencer]

Hi dancunian,
I don't want to get too involved in your three points to detract from my overall theme.
The allegations of fraudelent transactions have not been proved, I don't think. Unlike some transactions undertaken by the three main parties, this one was made by a UK taxpayer whereas some of the others weren't.
I had no objection to the UK having better trading arrangements with Europe, in the initial proposals but I do object to this country being swallowed up by Europe, and being governed by unelected officials.
With regards to the article in the Wiltshire paper, all I will say is that throughout the country accusations of racism have been made when, most times, the supposedly guilty person has spoken against an individual about their wrongful actions and if the person happens to be coloured they are pronounced guilty. The country is ridden with examples of political correctness which is laughable;

[dancunian]

Hugh

In this case though the Councillors involved (now UKIP) were not speaking about non-white people and their wrongful actions. They were sending e-mails to each other with pictures of "P*ss Off" etched into the White cliffs of Dover.

Even 'Migration watch' is forced to admit that immigrants benefit the economy.

Not to be pious or PC, but I suspect most people would consider this unacceptable behaviour from elected officials.