The Starmer Stasi At It Again......
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Atheism's biggest lie?
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Thinking about a different thread I wondered if a point deserved a question of it's own.
It is often said that religion causes wars, so can anyone please name a truly religious war in the last 200 years? Or even beyond that?
It is often said that religion causes wars, so can anyone please name a truly religious war in the last 200 years? Or even beyond that?
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Religious divides in war time, the allies in both WW1 and WW2 were of a very broad ethnic and religious base. It is also a fact that a large part of the British rmy in the 19th and 20th century were Indian soldiers.
The civil chaos in India after the partition is something that happens quite alot (sadly) when countries fracture or Empires fall Nationalism takes over (at least for a spell) it happened in Yugoslavia and it happened in America, it also happened in China.
If the war in Afghanistan is in defence (or implementation) of secular governance do you support China's "invasion" of Tibet in 1950?
The civil chaos in India after the partition is something that happens quite alot (sadly) when countries fracture or Empires fall Nationalism takes over (at least for a spell) it happened in Yugoslavia and it happened in America, it also happened in China.
If the war in Afghanistan is in defence (or implementation) of secular governance do you support China's "invasion" of Tibet in 1950?
The consensus here seems to be that religion does NOT really cause wars and, as an atheist, I have no problem with that. But why do think that to say the reverse is "atheism's lie"? By whom, exactly, s it "often said" that religion causes wars? In what sense is that belief a necessary part of being an atheist? If an individual gives, as one of the reasons for his atheism, the belief that religion "causes wars" he is speaking simplistically - and for himself, not for all atheists. He's not uttering some kind of atheist dogma akin to the articles of belief that form the basis of a religion.
If you actually read the question I state quite clearly that "it's often said that religion causes wars" I'm seeking examples of this, to substantiate it.
I'm not attacking any sort of atheist dogma, I just want some evidence to prove the statement.
And yes the consensus appears to be that religion does'nt cause wars.
Consensus on R&S, who'd have thought it....
I'm not attacking any sort of atheist dogma, I just want some evidence to prove the statement.
And yes the consensus appears to be that religion does'nt cause wars.
Consensus on R&S, who'd have thought it....
I didn't say religion was the only or mandatory divide.
It's often racial as it was certainly in WWII and to a lesser degree in WWI.
and the religious divide in the British Army that you describe was not always happy.
Look at the infamous "greasing cartriges with fat" incident. Whether it's true or not is irrelevant - enough thought it might be!
I don't think there's a paraleel between Afganistahn and Tibet.
In the first case you have an attempt to deny a safe haven to forces that have shown an ability and willingness to strike at Western Countries and the other is pretty much an unprovoked piece of old fashioned colonialism.
It's often racial as it was certainly in WWII and to a lesser degree in WWI.
and the religious divide in the British Army that you describe was not always happy.
Look at the infamous "greasing cartriges with fat" incident. Whether it's true or not is irrelevant - enough thought it might be!
I don't think there's a paraleel between Afganistahn and Tibet.
In the first case you have an attempt to deny a safe haven to forces that have shown an ability and willingness to strike at Western Countries and the other is pretty much an unprovoked piece of old fashioned colonialism.
Just a select few of the seasonal turkey shoot �debates��..
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Society-and-Cul ture/Religion-and-Spirituality/Question572105. html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Society-and-Cul ture/Religion-and-Spirituality/Question466091. html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Society-and-Cul ture/Religion-and-Spirituality/Question334518. html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Society-and-Cul ture/Religion-and-Spirituality/Question572105. html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Society-and-Cul ture/Religion-and-Spirituality/Question466091. html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Society-and-Cul ture/Religion-and-Spirituality/Question334518. html
Tibet and Afghanistan could be accused of being "colonial" adventures although even the most stern of critics wuld accept that Tibet has been a part of China since the the end of the Ming dynasty, without getting embroiled in the Tibet question of illegality and sovreignty etc (I believe Tibet is a part of China) but if Afghanistan is about secularism (then it's an anti religious war) if it's national interest then it's not a religious conflict in any way shape or form.
Most of you have fallen into everton's trap of considering only religious wars and have forgotten his heading of "Atheism's biggest lie?"
Most of the evils caused by religion have not involved war. The Inquisition, the Crusades, the burning of heretics, the witchhunts, the suicide-bombings, the 'honour killings' , the circumcision of women, the demand that all infidels should be beheaded, and so on, have had nothing to do with war but are the direct result of religious belief. Without religion they would simply not have not happened.
Such things are not the invention of atheists, so in what way are atheists "lying"? Even the ultimate atrocities committed by the Old Testament God were not invented by atheists, but by the Jews themselves!
Atheists do not kill people because they are atheists or because they cannot stand other who people who are not. Neither are there wars between different sects and cults of atheism. They have nothing to kill or war about, since they have reason, logic and commonsense on their side.
Most of the evils caused by religion have not involved war. The Inquisition, the Crusades, the burning of heretics, the witchhunts, the suicide-bombings, the 'honour killings' , the circumcision of women, the demand that all infidels should be beheaded, and so on, have had nothing to do with war but are the direct result of religious belief. Without religion they would simply not have not happened.
Such things are not the invention of atheists, so in what way are atheists "lying"? Even the ultimate atrocities committed by the Old Testament God were not invented by atheists, but by the Jews themselves!
Atheists do not kill people because they are atheists or because they cannot stand other who people who are not. Neither are there wars between different sects and cults of atheism. They have nothing to kill or war about, since they have reason, logic and commonsense on their side.
Added to that the Sepoy Revolt to which you refer to did not sweep the whole nation (only parts of it) and many Indian soldiers participated in the quelling of the unrest, furthermore it did'nt stop them from participating in the 2nd Anglo Sudanese war and as I'm sure you're aware there was never conscription in the British Empire for dominion troops so nobody compelled them to serve either.
Although I'm happy to be corrected on conscription (Canada WW1?)
Although I'm happy to be corrected on conscription (Canada WW1?)
I chose the title to gain it attention, the accusation of the relationship between religion and war is widespread and widely known.
The answer you've given is an entirely different question which would be something like "Does religion divide communities?" you can have that one on me, feel free to post it.
Some of the worst people I know, meet and some of the most erratic, irrational, illogical people I've ever met are atheists.
Common sense is a non-denomonational thing,
The answer you've given is an entirely different question which would be something like "Does religion divide communities?" you can have that one on me, feel free to post it.
Some of the worst people I know, meet and some of the most erratic, irrational, illogical people I've ever met are atheists.
Common sense is a non-denomonational thing,
chhakka.
The traditional cultural practice of female circumcision predates both Islam and Christianity. A Greek papyrus from 163 B.C. mentions girls in Egypt undergoing circumcision and it is widely accepted to have originated in Egypt and the Nile valley at the time of the Pharaohs. Cultural/ethnic.
Honour killings are (horrendously) bough tabout by people who believe their daughter bought dishonour on the family by refusing an arranged marriage. Cultural/ ethnic issue.
Beheading of adversaries/the enemey happened long before established religion.
I really don't know why you would attribute these solely as 'religious' matters. Also, as Everton has said - the last 200 years - I think the rest of your argument precedes that.
The traditional cultural practice of female circumcision predates both Islam and Christianity. A Greek papyrus from 163 B.C. mentions girls in Egypt undergoing circumcision and it is widely accepted to have originated in Egypt and the Nile valley at the time of the Pharaohs. Cultural/ethnic.
Honour killings are (horrendously) bough tabout by people who believe their daughter bought dishonour on the family by refusing an arranged marriage. Cultural/ ethnic issue.
Beheading of adversaries/the enemey happened long before established religion.
I really don't know why you would attribute these solely as 'religious' matters. Also, as Everton has said - the last 200 years - I think the rest of your argument precedes that.
123everton, you don't get out of it that easily! You said in one of your own postings, "Could'nt you have just said yes it is atheisms's biggest lie and saved yourself alot of time?"
Your heading certainly grabbed my attention and if you don't want to be seen as attacking atheism - or what you assume atheism to be - and to get answers like mine or Chakka's then you need to avoid such inflammatory language.
Your heading certainly grabbed my attention and if you don't want to be seen as attacking atheism - or what you assume atheism to be - and to get answers like mine or Chakka's then you need to avoid such inflammatory language.
Erm ok Tom (it's 3 past my bow time but I'll try) if you have religion then you're going tobe reluctant to say that your belief in religion is (or can be) the cause of conflict, if, on the other hand, you have no belief in religion then you will happily produce this contention.
Furthermore it's not a trap of some devious design I've even broadened the scope of the question to include antiquity and even questionable remits (I corrected myself at one point) this is a very simple question about religion causing wars.
History teaches us that in the absence of faith we get politics and thus far we have'nt got an example of a religious war since the reformation.
Is it fair to say that those who contend that religion causes wars are either (A) wrong or (B) liars?
All 'm asking for is rational, reasonable, verifiable proof, it can't be that hard can it?
Surely...
Furthermore it's not a trap of some devious design I've even broadened the scope of the question to include antiquity and even questionable remits (I corrected myself at one point) this is a very simple question about religion causing wars.
History teaches us that in the absence of faith we get politics and thus far we have'nt got an example of a religious war since the reformation.
Is it fair to say that those who contend that religion causes wars are either (A) wrong or (B) liars?
All 'm asking for is rational, reasonable, verifiable proof, it can't be that hard can it?
Surely...
The consensus of opinion here is that religion does not cause wars. Whether aetheists are actually 'lying' if they state religion causes war is very debatable. That statement comes from their perception of wars and an over simplistic view of the reasons for it.
However, if we leave perception aside and go with the vein of the original questions saying that religion causes wars is not atheisms biggest lie.
Saying there is no God is atheisms biggest lie!
However, if we leave perception aside and go with the vein of the original questions saying that religion causes wars is not atheisms biggest lie.
Saying there is no God is atheisms biggest lie!
I feel that the author's intention is to attack athiesm, not to try and acept or understand it.
Many have been persecuted by those who claim they are backed by religion.
Religion is an convenient way for the human mind to explain what cannot normally be explained by science.
Ancient peoples believed thunder was the anger of the gods. We now know it to be a metereological phenomenon.
This is one example of relgion being used to explain what, at the time, science could not.
Today, religion is still used to explain what we cannot fathom or explain, eg. creationism.
Many have been persecuted by those who claim they are backed by religion.
Religion is an convenient way for the human mind to explain what cannot normally be explained by science.
Ancient peoples believed thunder was the anger of the gods. We now know it to be a metereological phenomenon.
This is one example of relgion being used to explain what, at the time, science could not.
Today, religion is still used to explain what we cannot fathom or explain, eg. creationism.
Religion alone may not cause wars, but it certainly takes a pivotal role in exacerbating many conflicts. Religion introduces a hatred between peoples that goes far beyond the politics of war.
Firetracie Saying there is no God is atheisms biggest lie!
That�s as ridiculous as Everton�s original accusation.
Firetracie Saying there is no God is atheisms biggest lie!
That�s as ridiculous as Everton�s original accusation.
I'm not out to atack atheism, you believe what you want and leave me and everyone else to what they want.
And again having gotten people's attention I ask for examples to prove their point.
We have'nt had an example of a religious war since the reformation, is it fair to speculate that we'll never suffer myth again on AB?
So again I ask the ridiculous question, has there been a religious war in the last 200 years? If not then when does the author of such ripostes contend the last one was?
I find heat but no light.
And again having gotten people's attention I ask for examples to prove their point.
We have'nt had an example of a religious war since the reformation, is it fair to speculate that we'll never suffer myth again on AB?
So again I ask the ridiculous question, has there been a religious war in the last 200 years? If not then when does the author of such ripostes contend the last one was?
I find heat but no light.
Hi naomi
Sorry if I didn't make my point clearly. I'll try to explain my response.
Atheists 'believe' there is no God. They have no 'evidence' to prove this belief. (People of religion believe there is a God - they too have no 'evidence' to prove this belief).
IF atheisms is a belief and IF you question that belief then you must percieve that the biggest lie of all atheists is that there is no God! Their pereption that religion causes wars or derives from the belief that religions are a fantasy.
Sorry if I didn't make my point clearly. I'll try to explain my response.
Atheists 'believe' there is no God. They have no 'evidence' to prove this belief. (People of religion believe there is a God - they too have no 'evidence' to prove this belief).
IF atheisms is a belief and IF you question that belief then you must percieve that the biggest lie of all atheists is that there is no God! Their pereption that religion causes wars or derives from the belief that religions are a fantasy.
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